Is toy collecting "work" ??? [Archive] - HissTank.com

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 06:19 PM

Yeah, it sure looks like a silly question, doesn't it?

But I have encounterd collectors who think of it as something other than just a hobby. Since others might share this POV, I wanted to float it past everyone else.

For example, I rebuilt/restored a GIJoe USS Flagg from the ground up out of spare parts I found on ebay, at hobby store junk bins, and on trade. Just to give you an idea how much "work" that was, I had to locate nearly a dozen parts for the complete sensor array alone.

I'm very proud of how it's turned out, but I still don't see it as "work" per-se. I don't think it necessarily deserves some kind of reward outside of the satisfaction of having it either.

Recently, I've done the same with a Defiant playset and I'm starting on my second. I don't consider that work either. It can be annoying at times, but it's part of the hobby for me; more recreational.

Ditto on the customs.

And outside of my real job, I don't think of shopping for figures as work either. Browse, click, bid, sit on your ass, wait for the package, and that's it. Sure, sometimes you work through other collectors, but :yawn: there's really not much to this, unless you're writing a book, or you have some sort of disability or something. It's supposed to be fun, right?

So what do you think? Is collecting work to you?

-PJ

C.I.A.D.

11-09-2007, 07:12 PM

IMO, it really shouldn't be work. It should be enjoyed as a hobby. One should take time to learn all about it, so that things like "running changes" and "variants" aren't a surprise, they're expected.

I really enjoy collecting. I loved G.I.Joe since I was seven (that was in 1982, so yes, I'm old, lol).

I don't even consider my eBay store (righteous self promotion, WOOT!) "work", persay. I enjoy interacting with other members in the community and I've been fortunate enough to meet a lot of great people through my store, and through the boards for that matter.

If I had to call it work, I'd say it's been the best work I've had all my life. I've never looked at hunting something down as a chore...it was always worth the thrill of the hunt itself. Did I just waste fourty bucks in gas to find a 5 dollar figure? heck yeah I did, and I found him! Woo Hoo!

This hobby is what you make it. The only time it's work is when you let it become such.

~ Fin ~

OUTBACK

11-09-2007, 07:18 PM

negative, it's a hobby.

Shogi

11-09-2007, 07:34 PM

I think there are times when I let it stress me out too much, but it's still just a hobby.

As CIAD said about the hunt (that's one of the parts that stresses me :) ) I could make it easier on myself if I just preordered everything and waited, but I don't get the same joy from that as I do from running all over 3 towns searching stores only to turn the corner in the toy aisle and finally see GI Joe figures hanging on the pegs. There is a thrill there that is much like finding hidden treasure. :D

and while making customs and costumes can be a lot of work and take a long time (sometimes) it's still very relaxing to me

Tripwire201

11-09-2007, 07:55 PM

Is toy collecting "work"?

It can be at times, yes. Following leads, tracking down deals, emailing, visting other collectors or employees, writing articles, updating websites, researching information, learning history, etc. Is it still fun? Sure, but it can definitely be work. I think the difference is, as I said in my intro, between being a casual collector and a serious hobbyist. Many serious collectors put a lot of time into it and many times it seems for nothing. Write an article and somebody has to point out what you missed. Edit for a website and you hear people gripe that submissions weren't posted fast enough or that your db isn't complete. Those that do a lot for the community really do work hard. Trust me.

I'm very proud of how it's turned out, but I still don't see it as "work" per-se. I don't think it necessarily deserves some kind of reward outside of the satisfaction of having it either.

What kind of reward would it deserve? Stuff like that is done for self and the reward is how it makes you feel.

And outside of my real job, I don't think of shopping for figures as work either. Browse, click, bid, sit on your ass, wait for the package, and that's it.

Sure, if you only collect modern or even some vintage. However, when you are tracking down rare pieces, prototypes, or bootlegs it's a little more work that point, click, sit on your ass. Some are happy with that. Some consider that more shopping than collecting. To each his own. Me, I got bored with that years ago. It's hardly ever that for me. I've spent 5 years finding pieces I wanted. I've been searching 7 for a few with still no luck. I enjoy the challenge. Anybody can point, click, shop. Just my opinion of course. :)

Sure, sometimes you work through other collectors, but :yawn: there's really not much to this, unless you're writing a book, or you have some sort of disability or something.

That's a nice thought. So only handicapped work hard? Jeez, talk about not only a narrow view but a pretty offensive one. You have every right to be a casual collector but others do work hard. Those that work hard it shows, and those that don't, well, that does too.

It's supposed to be fun, right?

Yep. Been fun for me for years. Knuckleheads on message boards cause more grief for me than working hard at collecting. Those are the true spoilers of the hobby IMO.

201

slim19722

11-09-2007, 07:58 PM

I see it as a hobby and since I have so much free time, I can go looking for the items I want. The hunt is just as much fun as putting up displays of my figures.

j_t_d

11-09-2007, 08:22 PM

Not "work" in as much as a "job" or "career", but my personal G.I.Joe collecting has certainly entailed a lot of hard work. But the thing is...it's ALL enjoyable effort to me because it's for my hobby.

So, tracking down rare items, former Hasbro employees, researching, designing/building display items, websites, etc. etc...are all forms of work. Though I do enjoy my sleep time, I wouldn't have anywhere near the collection I have if I just lazily laid back and expected items/info would walk up and jump into my possession. :)

Like alot of collectors these days, I'm long past the point with the items I'm after that I can simply say, "I want 'X'. I'll take out the wallet, and go to the store (online or brick and mortar) and buy 'X'. I now own 'X'".

But it's so darn enjoyable, even if it does sometimes take a long time & concerted effort!

-Peter

OUTBACK

11-09-2007, 08:28 PM

ok, ok, since you all put it that way...

a part-time job?

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 08:43 PM

So, tracking down rare items, former Hasbro employees, researching, designing/building display items, websites, etc. etc...are all forms of work.

Do you see your Hasbro contacts as a relationship you make only to further your hobby goal, or have you seen some truly mutual friendships come about?

Have you ever been turned away by a Hasbro associate because they've felt that they're more of a target rather than a person? How do you resolve that apparent dispute?

Do you see other people as part of your hobby? Why or why not?

Like alot of collectors these days, I'm long past the point with the items I'm after that I can simply say, "I want 'X'. I'll take out the wallet, and go to the store (online or brick and mortar) and buy 'X'. I now own 'X'".

Are you collecting known items now that you know you can locate, or are you still waiting for undiscovered pieces? Do you have a final goal for the hobby, or is it more open-ended?

But it's so darn enjoyable, even if it does sometimes take a long time & concerted effort!

But not "work" per-se?

-PJ

OUTBACK

11-09-2007, 08:50 PM

it's like i buy stuff, then i think..."what the heck am i doing".

i could be planning vacations and cruises maybe even a trip to Europe, but no...

......tsssss

Lt. Faceless

11-09-2007, 09:11 PM

If this is work,somebody better start cutting out my checks.I haven't seen a dime.

I think its fun,i don't shop online.The only thing i have ever got online was when hasbro had their 75% off sale.I enjoy going to the store to find it.For that reason,i don't have most of wave 2 or 3.It just makes it that much better when i do find it.

j_t_d

11-09-2007, 09:21 PM

A little of both. Making contacts with former Hasbro employees has certainly enkindled my passion for my collection. Mostly what I've gained from speaking with them is tons of knowledge about the line, what it was like to work on it/create for it. Ultimately, not many physical items have come into my possession via this route. But the info and just talking with some cool people is the best part. I kind of hold these guys up on a pedestal, as they were responsible for crafting a toyline that helped encouraged my imagination and inspired hours of joy.

I wouldn't expect to develop strong-bond friendships with these people, as our relationship is more "fan" / "artist". But I'm lucky to have discovered a nice friendship with some.

Have I ever been turned away, because they feel they or their items/etc are a target? Yes! But it's only a couple times. Some guys just don't care to talk to you, or think your trying to sheister them, etc. That's okay with me. But there's never been a dispute. I've just apologize to have bothered them and wish them well. Usually they'll do the same.

And of course other people are part of "my" hobby. Much like we're all part of many different communities in our lives. Friends, Church, school, town, etc. But since collecting is very much an individual pursuit, the degree of involvement of the overall community into my individual collecting is minimal. Much like one would live his/her own life, within a community of other people doing the same with their's.

Again, a little of both. I'm after both known items...but with location of most known items unknown. So it's a matter of "digging" for them. Asking people over and over for info on them, calling around, etc. And also items that are undiscovered as well. I love these types of items! There are many items that I "think" MIGHT be "out there" or "somewhere", but don't know if they are uncovered yet. Both are types of items I'm after.

No, definitely work and effort. But also enjoyable. :)

-Peter

Shane Turgeon

11-09-2007, 09:27 PM

Collecting is what you want it to be for yourself. If you want to put a lot of time, effort and energy into it, then you have every right to call that "work".

If you don't want to do that and want to keep it a casual hobby then it's understandable that you don't see it as work.

Being that everyone collects on a different level and views the hobby differently, there can only ever be "shades of grey" on a topic like this and everyone is going to have a different answer - whether you agree with it or not.

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 09:32 PM

Again, a little of both. I'm after both known items...but with location of most known items unknown. So it's a matter of "digging" for them. Asking people over and over for info on them, calling around, etc. And also items that are undiscovered as well. I love these types of items! There are many items that I "think" MIGHT be "out there" or "somewhere", but don't know if they are uncovered yet. Both are types of items I'm after.

No, definitely work and effort. But also enjoyable. :)

-Peter

Thank you for taking the time to answer Peter, and thank you for your patience and honesty in answering what some might see as hard or confrontive questions. I was particularly impressed by your openness and non-patronizing approach to the topic.

Again, thanks.

-PJ

C.I.A.D.

11-09-2007, 09:34 PM

Being that everyone collects on a different level and views the hobby differently, there can only ever be "shades of grey" on a topic like this and everyone is going to have a different answer - whether you agree with it or not.

Exactly. Doesn't that make for interesting reading though? Kind of allows one another to "learn" each other's perspective on the hobby.

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 09:35 PM

If there are shades of grey to the issue, then do the "casual" and "serious" labels really matter then?

I can agree and understand when it turns into a profession, but then it wouldn't be a hobby anymore, would it?

-PJ

C.I.A.D.

11-09-2007, 09:43 PM

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 09:59 PM

Shane Turgeon

11-09-2007, 10:21 PM

If there are shades of grey to the issue, then do the "casual" and "serious" labels really matter then?

Only if people want them to. People are free to label themselves or not label themselves as they see fit. It's the individual collector's perogative.

I can agree and understand when it turns into a profession, but then it wouldn't be a hobby anymore, would it?

It is whatever each person wants it to be for themselves.

Because if the level of "work" is subjective and only measured by each individual's choice, then every contribution to the hobby is indeed equal, correct?

The level of work is subjective and contributions can be measured. If you wrote 2 articles on a subject and gave 3 presentations at a convention and i submitted 1 photo to a website and answered 2 questions on a message board and a third collector did nothing at all, then mathematically and literally, these contributions are not equal. The overall "hobby worth" of said contributions, so long as they are informative and truthful, will vary by each and every individual collector in the hobby who will base that worth solely on their collecting interests and personal level of hobby participation.

j_t_d

11-09-2007, 10:33 PM

Okay, so then terms like "casual", "serious", and even "levels" of collecting can be taken as purely subjective terms?

Because if the level of "work" is subjective and only measured by each individual's choice, then every contribution to the hobby is indeed equal, correct?

-PJ

Sure they "can" be taken as subjective term, if you're thinking in cerebral terms. But a cerebral existence is not much of an existence at all without the actual. In reality these terms are true and fully realized applicable descriptions (both self-appointed and "anointed" by others) of collector's interest, participation and intent.

Every single pasttime and certainly collecting pasttimes, have those easily identifiable as "serious" and "casual" participants. And they are labels that are fitting.

Contributions would not be equal, of course. Much like the batboy's contribution would never be considered as "equal" as the General Managers or home-run-hitting batter. Levels of contribution are ultimately something looked at and assessed by the entirety of the whole collecting body.

A individual's assessment ultimately fall into "opinion". And of course we all know the old adage about what opinions are like...and everyone having one.

The farther any modern-day mindset (whether a community or individual) stays away from the whole "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" thinking...the better. Marxism/communism ain't cool. :)

-Peter

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 10:41 PM

BTW, I'm responding to posts now without quote blocks as a gesture of good faith.

General question: If contributions (the work?) could be measured, then the level of work would then be objective, rather than subjective, because it is then tangible, correct?

Also, if the hobby (as well as the labels) are judged and interpreted by individual basis only, then none could be applied to the overall collector populace. Correct?

Would the one contribution to the hobby remain equal to another if say, one was in print format and the other were delivered via continuous repetition, say at conventions and so forth?

-PJ

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 10:51 PM

How are "serious" and "casual" participants so "easily identifiable"? What is the criteria for earning one badge or the other if it's all within one pastime?

How do these labels "fit" specifically? Further, how can they fit if the one being labeled doesn't wish to be put into one box or another?

Going with the sports allusion, do you then believe the statement, "there is no 'I' in team" as trite or mere rhetoric? Do you believe there are such things as MVPs in the collecting community?

And all references to Marxism aside, I do not wish to be misunderstood. I am not advocating that anyone tear up for example, a Dave Dorman original and distribute an equal portion to the masses.

I'm only asking if the value on a collectible is only what someone is willing to pay, then wouldn't the inverse also be true?

-PJ

j_t_d

11-09-2007, 10:58 PM

I think you'll ultimately drive yourself crazy if you want to obtain any authoritative answers on your specific questions. You're questions are posed with such stark contrast in choice of answer. There are far to many influences and factors to break this down to anything scientific or black/white.

-Peter

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 11:08 PM

I thought we were making fantastic progress. This is one of the most rewarding discussions I have had in years. You're welcome to come and go as you choose however. No one is trying to pin you down personally.

I do not understand how my questions are posed with such "stark contrast" in choice of answer. Am I offering too few options?

Again, you are welcome to participate further if you choose. IMO, I genuinely feel that I'm getting somewhere. Additionally, I'm surprised no one has asked me anything. My stance on this issue has evolved, I assure you.

-PJ

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 11:20 PM

Irid70

11-09-2007, 11:24 PM

Obiwanjacoby

11-09-2007, 11:44 PM

If I can interject here...

I don't think you can say that involving "work" makes something cease to be a hobby.

Personally I don't like putting too much effort into my collecting of GI Joe Figures or Marvel Legends or Lord of the Rings toys. Click and buy. Grab and buy. Rip open package. Pose in sexually suggestive manner. The end. (I kid. Slightly).

However, take another hobby of mine, one that is actually probably a bigger hobby for me than collecting; RPGs. Been playing 'em for well over a decade and a half, mostly as a GM/Referee. I have to create stories, flesh out characters, run the session, keep people happy, host them in my home. I also paint the minis we use. This is all by any definition "work" but I don't see that it makes my involvement in gaming no longer a hobby.

I know people who consider wood-working a hobby, or leather crafting, or painting, etc. These all clearly involve work. So they're not hobbies? I don't see it.

I'm totally with you on this. BTW, hope you don't mind me blockquoting you, since you've allowed me to do it in the past. :)

"Effort" -----> Reward.

What is the reward?

Some possible rewards could include, but are not limited to. . .

- Money
- Personal attention
- Power
- Influence
- or simply love of the hobby itself.

I have no idea what reward Irid (for example*) looks for from collecting Joes or RPGs, but can we all agree it is a fact that he does get some kind of reward from it?

Can we agree that any of the above listed can be a possible reward from the work applied to the hobby?

-PJ

*Not trying to pick on you Irid, just stepping off from your example. Hope you don't take any offense.

Irid70

11-09-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote away, dude.

As for rewards in my specific example (dunno about anyone else) I love to tell stories, I like the camaraderie around the gaming table, etc. I would say there's no money. There is power in a sense...as a GM, I am as a GOD! But I try to use my power for everyone's fun.

As for collecting Joes or any other toys...they look cool? I can, as said above, pose them in grossly sexually suggestive ways? I can annoy my wife with the Cobra soundbox..(Cobra....COBRA!...Cobra....COBRA!)...it 's a kind of undefinable fun, I suppose. For me. Maybe not for others.

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 12:03 AM

Personal note:

I get the impression that even bringing up the topic itself is somehow a breach of etiquette. It really makes some people feel uncomfortable, like it's some sort of taboo or something.

Never understood that. :confused:

And the more I asked, the more freaked out people would get. Which begs the next question*, "Is it really 'just toys'???" Because some collectors seem not to see it that way. Therefore, it's only all in fun, until this invisible line is crossed.

-PJ

*Maybe a future thread.

General Scarlett

11-10-2007, 12:13 AM

Well, I would consider those labels easy to explain:

Casual - "Eh, if I see it, I'll buy it. If not, no big deal."

Serious - "Eh, if I don't see it, I'll drive around in a 50 mile radius until I find it".

IMO, serious is anyone who's willing to spend more time and money than they should on this hobby. That encompasses like 99.5% of us, lol :D

I'm glad that I fall into that .5% !!!! :D

I think it's great that so many of you are having such an intellectual conversation over this.....

For me, it's just something that interests me.....so I involve myself to whatever extent I feel like on any given day.......:cool:

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 12:15 AM

As for collecting Joes or any other toys...they look cool? I can, as said above, pose them in grossly sexually suggestive ways? I can annoy my wife with the Cobra soundbox..(Cobra....COBRA!...Cobra....COBRA!)...it 's a kind of undefinable fun, I suppose. For me. Maybe not for others.

But others can readily see the "reward" you're looking for, right? You're attempting to invoke ^^^ camaraderie in one sense, and playful kidding around in another.

RPGs are a good example. How would your group react if you divided them up according to labels such as "munchkin" "rules lawyer" etcetera. even if these labels appeared to fit?

Have you taken (or would you take) your game group to a game con?

What amount of respect (if any) would you feel is fair from other gamers at the con? Do you feel that there are some attending that deserve more public deference than others?

Let's say you meet Steve Jackson. Would you treat him any differently from say. . .Gary Gygax?

What if one of the convention attendees asked for a "hand out" of special deference simply because he/she was a convention organizer, speaker, or tournament ref? How far would you take it until feeling offended yourself, if at all?

-PJ

Irid70

11-10-2007, 12:29 AM

Well, if a person fit a strict definition of "rules lawyer" or "munchkin" I would probably weed them out of my group before too long. My games tend to be too RP heavy for 'em.

The only con I've been to is a small one in the NE that, until this past year, has been entirely private.

At that con, the level of respect for me was pretty high because most people there had played in my games, or played with me in other games. Many of them are also some of my closest friends, so not a really fair assessment.

At a REAL con I wouldn't expect anyone to give a rat's butt about me because in the gaming world I'm nobody, and I don't want to be anybody except a GM who runs a good game for friends. Some people, people with game product credits to their name, certainly deserve more deference than me.

I don't worship either of those guys..I love D&D but Gygax is by many accounts a very bitter and unpleasant old man, but I'd ask for his autograph.

Convention organizers/volunteers/speakers definitely deserve SOMETHING for their time, whether it's free product or a pat on the back or what have you. I've volunteered at big events (music festivals) and I darn sure expected some kind of return (free tickets, good camping spot, free food, etc). If they're demanding I kiss the ground they walk on, they can keep dreaming. If they've devoted themselves to that sphere, fine...good for them. Respect and credit where due. I won't bow to them but I WILL freely admit they know more/have done more in that field than I have.

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 12:30 AM

For me, it's just something that interests me.....so I involve myself to whatever extent I feel like on any given day.......:cool:

How would you feel then if (hypothetically speaking now) I labeled you as "less of a serious collector" than I am?

Your collection, your dios, your photography, and your creative writing, all placed one tier below what I have to bring to the table?

What would you think about it?

-PJ

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 12:43 AM

I don't worship either of those guys..I love D&D but Gygax is by many accounts a very bitter and unpleasant old man, but I'd ask for his autograph.

That. . .was a fascinating statement. I love that! :cool:

Convention organizers/volunteers/speakers definitely deserve SOMETHING for their time, whether it's free product or a pat on the back or what have you. I've volunteered at big events (music festivals) and I darn sure expected some kind of return (free tickets, good camping spot, free food, etc). If they're demanding I kiss the ground they walk on, they can keep dreaming. If they've devoted themselves to that sphere, fine...good for them. Respect and credit where due. I won't bow to them but I WILL freely admit they know more/have done more in that field than I have.

I completely 100% agree with this. We're onto something here.

Now say you met me at a Joe convention, and I introduced myself with. . ."Hi, my name is PJ*, I'm a volunteer here. I'm the guy that brought you the Doc mail-away. See, I was doing lunch with my pal [name drop] from Hasbro and he asked me to give him an idea for a figure that didn't need much re-tooling, so when you see Doc, think of PJ! Okay? "

Honest question: What category of volunteer does this fall into? Why did PJ make such a statement? Are his motives clear in this case, or more subtle or variable? Has PJ crossed a line at some point? Sure PJ deserves thanks for the extra effort he's putting in, but why'd he do it to begin with? Is this a volunteer that deserves more deference than any other volunteer? Is PJ a "higher level" fan/collector/whatever than you, Irid?

-PJ

*Really is my given name, Paul is just on the birth cert.

Tripwire201

11-10-2007, 12:46 AM

Just got back from the movies and I see I missed something. It seems a whole reply was cut out that I hear was for me. Feel free to PM it to me if you still have it. I hate missing out. :)

General question: If contributions (the work?) could be measured, then the level of work would then be objective, rather than subjective, because it is then tangible, correct?

Call me what you will but I definitely think some contribute more than others. Some great examples were given later in the thread so I won't rehash.

Would the one contribution to the hobby remain equal to another if say, one was in print format and the other were delivered via continuous repetition, say at conventions and so forth?

Contributions are contributions. If you write a book, write and article, work for a website, or speak at an event it's still a contribution. Sure, submitting photos to an archive is more than the guy sitting around at Walmart waiting for doors to open but not as "big" as some of the others. In a hobby, much like life, there are varying degrees. I think I do a lot for the SW hobby but somebody like Gus who speaks all over the world, runs the biggest site in the hobby, has dug up many Kenner, Hasbro, and LFL leads to gather info and liberate prototypes and props, and is writing a book surely has done much more. Varying degrees.

John

Irid70

11-10-2007, 12:49 AM

Now say you met me at a Joe convention, and I introduced myself with. . ."Hi, my name is PJ*, I'm a volunteer here. I'm the guy that brought you the Doc mail-away. See, I was doing lunch with my pal [name drop] from Hasbro and he asked me to give him an idea for a figure that didn't need much re-tooling, so when you see Doc, think of PJ! Okay? "

I would do 3 things, in order, and I am being completely honest:

1. I would nod, smile, shake your hand and say "thanks!"

2. I would think to myself, "what a name-dropping git."

3. I would relate the story to my friends and my wife and generally believe that it was greatly exaggerated.

Bear in mind, the fields I know best are the academic world and poetry...so I know from name-dropping gits and exaggerated accomplishments.

Also, mostly, after some time, I'd forget about it, because as much as I love GI Joe, it is a toy to me, not an investment, and there are many more important things going on for me.

Tripwire201

11-10-2007, 12:49 AM

If: collecting is not work, then no merit applies.

If: collecting is work on any "level", then merit applies.

But then if collecting were work on any level, then it would cease to be a hobby. Correct?

I hope I simplified the premise enough.

-PJ

That's extremely black and white.

As for "merit", what does it get you?

And, like others, I completely disagree with it not being a hobby. The roleplay example was perfect. You work but ut's still fun and even putting in hours of hobby time is better than time spent in my office.

John

Tripwire201

11-10-2007, 12:57 AM

What amount of respect (if any) would you feel is fair from other gamers at the con? Do you feel that there are some attending that deserve more public deference than others?

That's an interesting look into what goes through your head. Do you see it like that? Do you see people who contribute looking for stuff?

IMO all collectors, that deserve it, should be treated with the same respect regarless of contribution. We're all people and I treat people like that in life too. Respect is earned and not given. Act like a jerk and you won't be given any show respect for fellow collectors, or people in life, and you get it.

Let's say you meet Steve Jackson. Would you treat him any differently from say. . .Gary Gygax?

What if one of the convention attendees asked for a "hand out" of special deference simply because he/she was a convention organizer, speaker, or tournament ref?

In my opinion they deserve something. Most times these events won't pay you so the least they can do is help you in some way. In most cases some sort of free pass is given. Pretty fair for dedicating hours to help thier event run smoothly.

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 01:01 AM

Also, mostly, after some time, I'd forget about it, because as much as I love GI Joe, it is a toy to me, not an investment, and there are many more important things going on for me.

Sound advice. Appreciated.

-PJ

Shane Turgeon

11-10-2007, 01:02 AM

My stance on this issue has evolved, I assure you.

As much as i'd love to believe you, Paul, statements like the following lead me to believe otherwise.

I thought we were making fantastic progress.
I genuinely feel that I'm getting somewhere.

If you do indeed wish for people to continue posting on this topic, cut the condescending attitude. We, as in everyone in this thread or who has ever been involved in a tirade with you, are not here for your personal psychology experiment.

If there was any ever question why so many people believe that you do in fact, have some sort of agenda, whether directed towards specific people in the hobby or the hobby in general, your quotes above and your continuous pressure with this topic, here and elsewhere, truly show it - whether you care to believe it or not.

It really makes some people feel uncomfortable, like it's some sort of taboo or something.

My personal feelings towards you notwithstanding, and i truly do mean this in the most constructive sense, but PJ, it's not the topic that makes people feel uncomfortable. It's you. I know you don't see your behaviour in this thread as being confrontational but it is. Maybe it's time to look in the mirror before blaming everyone else.

So, as much as i hate to do so, in the spirit of contructive discussion, i'm gonna take the bait and i'm gonna ask you the question Paul: Just what is the point you're trying to get at?

Can you please just cut all the circular logic and ad nauseum "hard questions", make your point and be done with it. Just "where are we getting", what "progress" do you want us all to make, and just what do you think the collective "we" are "onto" in this thread.

Tripwire201

11-10-2007, 01:09 AM

Personal note:

I get the impression that even bringing up the topic itself is somehow a breach of etiquette. It really makes some people feel uncomfortable, like it's some sort of taboo or something.

Never understood that. :confused:

Asking what somebody paid is a breach of etiquette, not this. What makes you feel that way? Would you have preferred everybody just agree it's not work? You wanted responses and now you're reading too much into them.

And the more I asked, the more freaked out people would get.

I haven't seen one person freak out yet. Looking too hard I'd say. I think you want people to react negatively. It helps you to maintain some sort of stereotype. Was "freaked out" not the reaction you actually wanted? Are you not trying to confront people who, as I said, are serious hobbyists?

Which begs the next question*, "Is it really 'just toys'???" Because some collectors seem not to see it that way.

Actually, when you are dealing with 25 year old toys they are collectibles. Prototypes such as sculpts or other artwork are usually pretty expensive and most would be foolish to think of them as "just toys".

Therefore, it's only all in fun, until this invisible line is crossed.

It's invisible because only you can see it.

Irid70

11-10-2007, 01:12 AM

I think I understand the point PJ is getting at.

How does one classify the various levels of "collector" or "hobbyist" or "enthusiast?"

I'll make another self-referential analogy, not because I'm trying to self-aggrandize, but because I find this genuinely interesting;

I am in academics. I am pursuing my 2nd advanced degree in my field. The fact that I have letters to put after my name DOES give me some definable level of status. I am above the people who hang out at poetry readings at Borders, above undergrads, but below those who have finished their degrees, published many books, and hold tenured or tenure track positions in the field.

Now there are many subtle gradations within that, but it basically goes; untrained, some basic training, advanced training, master- borders mook, undergrad, me, my teachers. Every once in a while you have someone come along with very little training who completely blows the field away. Since the field is poetry, say, Whitman or Shakespeare or even Frost, who never finished a degree, all fit this mold. And sure there are self educated scholars, but few and far.

Within something like collecting, there ARE many levels and gradations but there is no definition for them. There's no specific label to correlate with uneducated-undergrad-grad student-professor. I think...just think, could be wrong...what PJ's trying to get at is understanding just where those gradations lie. The problem is that is probably the work of a major sociological study and not some late-night message board meandering.

I'd totally read that study, btw.

General Scarlett

11-10-2007, 01:16 AM

How would you feel then if (hypothetically speaking now) I labeled you as "less of a serious collector" than I am?

Your collection, your dios, your photography, and your creative writing, all placed one tier below what I have to bring to the table?

What would you think about it?

-PJ

Honestly? I'd smile and engage you in conversation for a bit, letting you think that you were 'above me' for whatever assinine reasons you believed......

Then I'd most likely call you a paper @$$hole and a conceited snob for thinking that you were 'better' than me........no 2 people are created alike, ergo, no one person is 'higher' than any other in any 'collectors/collecting/collection' scenario........

Thinking that just because you have something that I or others don't makes you 'more involved' or that you have a 'deeper appreciation' or whatever such bullsh*t you deem.........well that's just plain D-U-M....

Then again, no one ever said that grown ups who play with little plastic army men are rocket scientists....:p

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 01:27 AM

I think I understand the point PJ is getting at.

AWESOME!!! :D

Within something like collecting, there ARE many levels and gradations but there is no definition for them. There's no specific label to correlate with uneducated-undergrad-grad student-professor. I think...just think, could be wrong...what PJ's trying to get at is understanding just where those gradations lie.

Bingo. This has been bouncing around in my mind for years now, and IIRC, I haven't encountered Irid since before I came here. It's nice to be understood. All's I'm saying is if the titles are there, then let's address each other by them. If not, then stop acting as if they were. I'm all good either way, I just want it out in the open.

The problem is that is probably the work of a major sociological study and not some late-night message board meandering.

Correct. But where do these things start? Maybe a sociologist will read this and become the next Durkheim. ;)

I'd totally read that study, btw.

Me too, in a heartbeat. Anything to give me a clue to getting along better with the Gemeinschaft.

-PJ

Shane Turgeon

11-10-2007, 02:13 AM

Bingo. This has been bouncing around in my mind for years now, and IIRC, I haven't encountered Irid since before I came here. It's nice to be understood.

For the love of gawd, why then didn't you just come out and say it instead of winding people around in circles for 5 pages?

All's I'm saying is if the titles are there, then let's address each other by them. If not, then stop acting as if they were. I'm all good either way, I just want it out in the open.

Well, if that's all you want then - you may call me "sir".

;) :D

Me too, in a heartbeat. Anything to give me a clue to getting along better with the Gemeinschaft.

I'm obviously not as well read as you Paul, and i'm OK with that. For anyone else lost after that passage, here's the handy Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinschaft_and_Gesellschaft

In all seriousness tho, Paul, i could care less about your sociological experiment. If that's what you want to get out of the hobby, then good on ya. But i'm not playing anymore.

If you *really* want to get along better with people, here's a legitimately friendly piece of advice: try being nice to people. Like i said before, you might *think* your behaviour is fine but when you go "off" like this, it rubs the majority of people the wrong way. Badgering people on message boards with circular logic is not an endearing trait.

From my personal experiences with you Paul, i can say that NOT ONCE have you ever made a civil or cordial attempt at communication, publically or privately - whether it was our frist disagreement all those years ago or this latest go round. From the get-go you wouldn't listen to people and you wouldn't accept their answers, facts, and/or opinions. It's fine to disagree with people's responses and then agree to disagree. It's borderline psychotic to beat the issue and pester them ad nauseum just because you don't/won't accept their POV.

What makes it worse is that you came up with your vast conspiracies about so many of us, none of it based on truth or honest interaction but on your thoughts and opinions, and then had to the nerve to publically post those thoughts as fact. Even when proven wrong, point blank, did you refuse to let any of it drop. And this is how you wound up banned from so many boards.

How could it all have been avoided? How can it be avoided in the future? Just be nice to people. And not ass-kissing nice, either. Just nice. We're all happy to share the knowledge we have with others who approach us in a friendly and respectful (not "earned" respect but simple, human respect) manner. Unfortunately, after your years of acting like this, you've blown it with so many people, Gemeinschaft and Gesellschaft alike.

***Mods and Admin, i apologize for bringing so much of this to light here on your board. This isn't an airing of "dirty hobby laundry" so-to-speak, but a legitimate response to Paul's request to looking for a "clue" in getting along better with others.***

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 02:16 AM

Because no one would have simply taken my word for it. :)

-PJ

KrymsynGardImmoral

11-10-2007, 06:11 AM

My collecting has been work. Used to be 16 hours a day work. That doesn't mean I enjoy it any less as a result, or find the outcome any less sweet. Anything worth enjoying is worth working for. No one has ever given me anything for free, and I've had to put time and effort into every item I own.

Holy christ, you guys are on Page 5? I was replying to the first post....Guess I missed out.

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 08:16 AM

Is this the part where we brew up a pot of international select coffee and share the moments of our lives?

Ok. I've been in this hobby since Fraggle Rock was on T.V. Therefore, I expect to be referred to as GRAND PUBAH ERICK, LORD & MASTER OF 3.75" SCOTTISH WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS!

Kinda has a nice ring to it, no? :D

Driftbot

11-10-2007, 08:44 AM

GPEL&Mo3.75SWM for president. ;)

so uhhh... wow. i feel like i have too low an IQ to participate in this crazy psycological analysis of toy collecting... but... here goes?

i dont think its work, but sometimes i like to work on things within the hobby. i have a few other hobbies that require "work" to achieve some sort of "payment" that is usually just self gratification.
"yay i finished painting a figure"
"yay i assembled and test drove this RC car kit"
etc.
its just something fun to do. i dont consider it work, because
A) i dont get paid, infact its quite the opposite.
B) i dont hate my hobbies.

also i dont think i fall into either catagory of "casual" or "hardcore".
i dont go crazy trying to locate hard to find vintage items, but i admire that dedication others have.
i also dont just "click and buy" because i enjoy "the hunt" to a certain degree. granted, i cant really hunt due to current geographical disadvantage (read: japan sucks), but i try to whenever i can.
when i cant do B&M, i turn to you, my fellow collectors/hobbyists, and ask for your help. so far its been a great experience and has established friendships and draws me further into this great hobby.

mostly i like collecting just for the nostalgia and i like displaying them, occasionally posing them and also improving some paint apps to add realism/accuracy.

a major reason i like the forums is we can all see what each person is into, some have that in common with others and some just admire the different approach/aspect/style?
i just love seeing the diversity of this huge "hobby"? for some its a whole lifestyle. for some its just a way to have fun. and lots of people kinda in between, like me?
my hat is off to all those who make things happen, like hisstank, for example. some people's devotion is absolutely invaluable to the community. (forums, pics, reviews, interviews, etc.) for that, i thank you.

that's my $0.02.
how did i do? :)

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 09:08 AM

Bravo! However, I have one problem with your post:

"GPEL&Mo3.75SWM for president."

You cannot expect to be president without at least a bumper sticker. I have not yet received my bumper sticker. Quite honestly, I'm a bit saddened by this. :p :D

Shogi

11-10-2007, 09:26 AM

General Scarlett

11-10-2007, 09:36 AM

Oh I'll pin C.I.A.D. all right........

"Grand Puba my a**...." :p

I'm the 'Supreme High Empress' then!!!! :cool:

Tripwire201

11-10-2007, 09:53 AM

If you *really* want to get along better with people, here's a legitimately friendly piece of advice: try being nice to people. Like i said before, you might *think* your behaviour is fine but when you go "off" like this, it rubs the majority of people the wrong way. Badgering people on message boards with circular logic is not an endearing trait.

I couldn't have said this better myself.

Just for the sake of disclosure I'll share. Years ago I was just starting my transition from modern to vintage action figures. I started to hang around the vintage boards and a few "big names" gave me snippy answers. Then I saw that all the names attached to rare pieces or prototypes were the same. I started to hear all these inner circle comments about them and fell into it for a short time. I wanted to learn about the hobby more and more and kept asking big names questions even though I fully believed in this inner circle and thought there was no way I'd ever be accepted or given the chance to get some of the stuff I wanted since they'd "control it" as other insinuated. They were happy to help with information though and were even happier to see after a while that I was doing my own research. Finally, one day one of them said to me that I could email once in a while with more than toy questions since he wasn't just a toy encyclopedia. Point taken. I felt bad. One day I found a similarity. It seemed he listed to the same music as I so I dropped him a line. Over time a friendship grew. This was the same big name that gave me a snippy answer earlier in my hobby life and we turned out to become good friends. He's actually one of my closest friends now. In fact, once I started being friendly I found there's so much more to collecting. I have far too many real life friends now and I visit thier homes, room with them at cons, talk on the phone, etc. I've done everything from climb the pyramids in Mexico to snowboard in Canada to visit the Eiffel Tower in Paris with some of these guys. All it takes is being nice and all that "inner circle" crap you hear about gets dispelled right away. The simple fact is friends look out for friends so if it seems like an inner circle it's not somethat that can't be penetrated it's just a circle of friends always looking for more friends.

I've seen several other converts besides myself over the years too. Many people new to boards get into old vs. new arguments and it's funny but a year later some of the new change sides. All it takes is becoming friends and you realize how wrong you were. If you don't try forever will you be on the outside looking in and cursing those on the inside for not letting you in. The funny thing is I've handed this key to many over the years and only a handful actually try the lock. Most just toss the key aside and keep cursing. It's thier choice to make. I've heard people say "what's in it for me?" when we invite them to cons. I tell them it's a chance to get to know your community and they've said point blank they are fine the way it is and toys would be the only motivation to go. Same people have screamed foul and made old vs. new accusations. That's fine. They made that choice.

John

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 10:47 AM

With all due respect, Ladies & Gentlemen, I really don't want to take away from this thread, as it's been a very interesting read.

That being said, there's a bit too many references being made about the Author of the topic.

If there's "bad blood", so to speak, then purhaps is better left in the past. Being that so many are new to this board, wouldn't this be a great opportunity to get a fresh perspective on things, including one another?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hear to defend anyone, just playing devil's advocate. What some view as "badgering", others would call "conversation". In the same respect, prying answers out of someone isn't exactly going to win anyone over. It actually leads them to feel as though the topic of conversation is geared towards "calling them out" or "fishing".

If at all possible, I humbly ask all involved that for the sake of others who aren't "involved" in the scenarios that have been mentioned, that we all just move forward.

If "you" feel that a thread and/or comment is directly pointed at "you", then by all means, discuss your feelings with the person in question...via PM. Doing so publicly causes a lot of people to steer away from the discussion, as quite honestly, it makes people feel uncomfortable. Myself included.

I really appreciate the info that's been shared in this thread, but feel as though we might be veering in to "uncharted territory" which relates to subject matter that has transpired on other boards and/or other fandoms.

So, with that said, this soap box I'm constantly standing on is bound to break, so perhaps I should step down. :)

Now....back on topic:

One area of collecting that I personally consider work at times is coming to terms with the fact that I actually enjoyed figures from the early 90's. It's work on my retnas to look at such Neon Colored insanity like Mega Marines Clutch & The Cobra Invader. Sometimes it's work saying "My name is Erick, and I'm a Battle Corps fan". I mean, where else can you find Leatherneck in Giraffe camo?

Lt. Faceless

11-10-2007, 11:03 AM

hehehe...you said battle corps fan. ;) i must confess,i'm a fan of ninja force.

That right there is what i enjoy about this hobby and talking to others.We all enjoy different parts of it,I went form early 90's to 25th.Spytroops and VvV didnt' do anything for me.If we all liked the same fig. and series,where would the fun be?When S6 first came out,i hated it.Then i got my first S6 toy in hand.Those are some nice toys.Once i learned to take them outside(blaspamy(sp?) to some collectors)I was a kid again.Its a hobby and you should be happy.If your not happy,thens its no longer a hobby.

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 11:24 AM

You know what was work? Being 17, bringing a girl over the house, and having to explain that the Armor Bot in my room wasn't a vaccuum cleaner, and the Flagg had "multiple uses", such as a coffee table.

Yeah, that always went over well :)

Tommy_Garvey

11-10-2007, 12:29 PM

and the Flagg had "multiple uses", such as a coffee table. :)

LOL! My sister's always wanted to do that! She's said for years that she wants a Flagg to make into a coffee table. :)

I've always been of the opinion that the hobby is what you make of it. If you want to call it work, you certainly can. Just because you happen to enjoy your work doesn't make it any easier. I once spent 6 months sifting through 15,000+ forum threads for the site's Admins. I read every one, post by post, trying to determine if the thread had any value to future collectors or not, and then acting accordingly. Would I consider that work? Yes, in fact I went so far as referring to it as my hobby job. It never stopped being my hobby however. All that changed was how much time and dedication I was willing to devote to the hobby.

I know plenty of collectors who work hard at their respective hobbies. I've never known any of them to demand any sort of special title or treatment for their work though. Usually, they just want to give something back to the community, and help out fellow collectors.

Tommy

apacolypse

11-10-2007, 12:56 PM

Is collecting work? Not really for me...if I get what I'm after good...if not, oh well there is always time to find it later.

I hope collecting doesn't become work ever for me...as work is a four letter curse word in my opinion. lol

My son is collecting...and I'm building his collection with him...so I'm along for the ride and loving every minute of it.

Shogi

11-10-2007, 12:57 PM

One area of collecting that I personally consider work at times is coming to terms with the fact that I actually enjoyed figures from the early 90's. It's work on my retnas to look at such Neon Colored insanity like Mega Marines Clutch & The Cobra Invader.

Tell me about it, My absolute favorite Joe is the Toxo-Zombie, but good lord, that thing's color is almost radioactive :D

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 01:06 PM

Dare I say this here...for the world to see?

..Know what's work?

Trying to explain to others that the Swamp Masher is a cool vehicle.

There. I said it. Let the bashing begin! :D

KrymsynGardImmoral

11-10-2007, 01:07 PM

the Flagg had "multiple uses", such as a coffee table.

Yeah, that always went over well :)

When i was 18, I had a girl i was involved with TRIP AND FALL over the Flagg, in the dark, one night.

Shogi

11-10-2007, 01:13 PM

Dare I say this here...for the world to see?

..Know what's work?

Trying to explain to others that the Swamp Masher is a cool vehicle.

There. I said it. Let the bashing begin! :D

Yeah, you're gonna have to re-enact the torture scene from Resivoir Dogs on me to get me to believe the Swamp Masher is cool (And I like the Earthquake!:eek: )

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 01:13 PM

When i was 18, I had a girl i was involved with TRIP AND FALL over the Flagg, in the dark, one night.

LOL...and $20 says that what was important was that she didn't break anything rather than her own personal safety.

Girl: *BOOM*

Krym: You OK?

Girl: Um, yeah, I think

Krym: No, not you, the Flagg. WTF? There's a deck clip missing! I think you need to leave.

Girl: wha? But it's 11 pm?!?!?!

Krym: That's ok, Septa runs until 2 a.m. Good luck & God Bless.

~ Fin ~

:D

j_t_d

11-10-2007, 01:13 PM

...and truly enjoy the reason why we're here....to bathe in the dorky-glow of one another as we, as adults, discuss topics related to something that should never include any ill will...toys.

Well said, bro. Well said! :)

-Peter

Derek2783

11-10-2007, 01:14 PM

Is toy collecting work?

I'll asnwer that question with another. Have you been able to find 25th stocked anywhere?

;)

j_t_d

11-10-2007, 01:15 PM

LOL...and $20 says that what was important was that she didn't break anything rather than her own personal safety.

Girl: *BOOM*

Krym: You OK?

Girl: Um, yeah, I think

Krym: No, not you, the Flagg. WTF? There's a deck clip missing! I think you need to leave.

Girl: wha? But it's 11 pm?!?!?!

Krym: That's ok, Septa runs until 2 a.m. Good luck & God Bless.

~ Fin ~

:D

This whole thing is absolutely hilarious. It actually happening to begin with is pretty damn funny. :D

-Peter

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 01:39 PM

This thread has been edited. Posts have been moved.

This has been done so that this discussion can continue in a positive manner.

Speaking of positives...

Shogi, the Swamp Masher IS a cool vehicle. It can climb through any terrain, it has a nice selection of weaponry, and enough capacity to hold at least 2 figures.

Sure, it was a technocolored nightmare. Sure, the only place it's camoflauged is in a room full of highlighters...but still. It rocks :D

Now, making you believe me...THAT's going to be work! :D

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 01:41 PM

I was good 24 posts ago. All my questions have been pretty much answered.

Those that haven't. . .I won't choose to point out or pursue, due to the previous commitment made not to make anyone feel cornered.

I am trying to remain consistent here on the tank. Hopefully my posts reflect that.

-PJ

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 01:45 PM

You know what's work? Gettin' you fackers to stay on topic. :p

Know what else is work? Keeping DTC Medi-Viper's shoulder pads on. I swear his shoulder pads piss me off more than taxes.

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 02:02 PM

You know what's work? Gettin' you fackers to stay on topic. :p

Know what else is work? Keeping DTC Medi-Viper's shoulder pads on. I swear his shoulder pads piss me off more than taxes.

Low-heat hot glue gun dude. I learned that from the old Pit mailing list. 101 uses thyar, and it doesn't damage the fig.

-PJ

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 02:12 PM

I don't think I can bring myself to use hot glue on an undamaged toy, no matter how much his shoulder pads piss me off.

Could you imagine real life battlefield conditions? You're brought in for emergency surgery, and the first thing you see is Scalpel, which causes you to poop yourself ever so delicately...then you look over, and a friggin' Medi Viper's shoulder pads fall right off?

I'd prefer to be taken hostage :D

Wow, talk about steering a topic off course, eh?

General Scarlett

11-10-2007, 02:16 PM

You know what's work? Gettin' you fackers to stay on topic. :p
..............

Ummmmm genius boy??? YOUR the one who brought 'Battle Corps' and Neon colored vehicles into the thread? And now with the hot glue thing???

Watch that iceberg man.....:p ;)

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 02:17 PM

Silence, woman. No one was supposed to catch that part. DAMN YOU! :p

BUT, that being said...my comments were in relation to subjects that I do find to be work...therefore staying on topic, although looking at the topic from a different perspective.

SO HA!

*runs*

General Scarlett

11-10-2007, 02:23 PM

You can run boy.........but you can't hide.......;)

dmooretoys

11-10-2007, 02:39 PM

For me the hobby will never be considered work even though I spend more time per week on it than I have some past part-time jobs. I have a weird outlook on things though as I consider my position in the military more of a profession than a job. I guess that means I'm out of work, huh?

As far as different levels of collectors I don't really think of it like this. The way I tend to look at collectors are YES, some contribute more than others to the community and hobby but NO, this doesn't make one better than the other--it simply means some spend more time and energy on the hobby. I think most anyone can be one of the "uber" collectors if they simply choose to put the time and effort into it. Although I spend a lot of time on the hobby I don't consider myself one of the elite guys because I tend to focus on the collectibles and weird items and just about EVERYONE is more knowledgeable than me when it comes to the toys. I will say I'm learning a lot about my little niche, though!

PJ, you mentioned in one of your earlier posts about what people gain from collecting and I have been giving this a lot of thought. I REALLY want an online museum of sorts to help fill in some gaps in the overall hobby knowledge base but why am I doing it? I like to help people but am I really doing it for them or me? I think if I were to be totally honest at least half of what I try to contribute for the community is for me. I feel like when I die I am going to try to have helped and influenced three major groups in my life: my family (particularily my daughters), the Soldiers about to be under my command when I become a new Platoon Leader, and the G.I. Joe collecting community. I guess if I am successful in these three areas I will consider my life a success.

Wow, didn't mean to get so deep but at least I'm staying on topic (heh heh).

Dan

General Scarlett

11-10-2007, 03:12 PM

MOST EXCELLANT sig man!!!! :cool:

dmooretoys

11-10-2007, 03:22 PM

MOST EXCELLANT sig man!!!! :cool:

Thanks! Those images came from a Hasbro Live Action Character Appearance promo kit I acquired. According to the front sheet stores could schedule live action appearances as part of Hasbro's Character Appearance Program. The program included appearances by Transformers, G.I. Joes, MLP, Get In Shape Girl, GLO Worm, and Mr Potato Head. Hasbro provided the costumes but the retailers had to mail them back to Hasbro. Joes costumes included in the program were:

Barbecue
BAT
Beach Head
Crimson Guard
Destro
Dr. Mindbender
Dusty
Flint
Footloose
Hawk
Lady Jaye
Leatherneck
Lifeline
Low-Light
Serpentor
Snake-Eyes
Storm Shadow

I contacted the company that designed the costumes and was told only two of each costume was produced. You'll be able to see these character sheets on the site I am working on when it launches.

Sorry guys, back on topic...

Dan

Tripwire201

11-10-2007, 04:48 PM

Ok, 2 OT replies in one.

SWEET Dan! I'm sure you've tried already but have any of the costumes or clothing patterns survived? Touring costumes would be totally insane to have.

CIAD, if hot glue makes you squeemish try dental wax. I've used it many times for everything from holding accesories on or in hands to holding hardcopy limbs on. Works like a charms and comes right off.

Ok, back to work, er, collecting. :)

John

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 04:58 PM

Ok, 2 OT replies in one.

SWEET Dan! I'm sure you've tried already but have any of the costumes or clothing patterns survived? Touring costumes would be totally insane to have.

If I owned one, I'd ruin it. I'd never take it off. My employer would get tired of me bumping people out of the way at the fax machine while screaming out COBRA in a B.A.T. costume.

CIAD, if hot glue makes you squeemish try dental wax. I've used it many times for everything from holding accesories on or in hands to holding hardcopy limbs on. Works like a charms and comes right off.

Thanks for the tip, man! That sounds like something I'd much rather try. I don't know if me, a hot glue gun, a shaky hand from too much coffee & a figure would work out :D

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 05:16 PM

SWEET Dan! I'm sure you've tried already but have any of the costumes or clothing patterns survived?

Yes, one of the Serpentor costumes showed up on ebay as a matter of fact. It was discussed at length on yojoe. I think Dan participated in that one as well. Prior to that, no one active online at the time was even aware of a touring group. Later on, we thought it was limited to a few main character visits, then we discovered that there were supporting character costumes as well.

EDIT: This information is truthful and as accurate as my memory allows. Other participants of the thread on that day can corroborate my account.

-PJ

dmooretoys

11-10-2007, 05:30 PM

Here are some pics of the B.A.T. from Ron Conner's site:

http://www.treasuresntoys.com/file%20copy%20bat%20costume.jpg

Dan

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 05:41 PM

Here are some pics of the B.A.T. from Ron Conner's site:

http://www.treasuresntoys.com/file%20copy%20bat%20costume.jpg

Dan

I remember now. The BAT was also a separate auction from the same seller, along with the Serpentor. . .wasn't it?

-PJ

KrymsynGardImmoral

11-10-2007, 05:45 PM

Tommy_Garvey

11-10-2007, 06:02 PM

Those costumes are sweet! Man, those would be sooooo cool to track down. They remind me of the costumes Disney castmembers wear. :)

Those costumed actor programs must have been big in the 80's. I think Marvel had a similar program, where their characters would appear at certain venues. Wished I'd known about it as a kid, I could have hired the Hulk to fight Destro at one of my birthday parties. ;)

Has anyone ever found pics of one of their actual appearances? Or signed photos? Things like that have a cheesy kinda of charm that I find interesting.

Tommy

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 08:24 PM

You know, after posting pictures, I've come to realize...taking pictures is A LOT of work!

dmooretoys

11-10-2007, 09:09 PM

Hey Dan, have you ever seen anything about a traveling Skydiving team? It was probably regional, I saw a crazy flier for it at the Joe con. It had a bunch of "Actors/skydivers" using the Joe's names, Duke, Scarlett, etc.

Before I left the yojoe staff I added a postcard about it here:

http://yojoe.com/archive/ads/94skydiving.shtml

Actually maybe Jeff added this one for me but regardless since I picked up that postcard I have also found a press kit with more information about it. If possible I'm going to get that on the site before it launches time permitting.

Dan

Irid70

11-10-2007, 09:23 PM

Man, why did they pick a guy who looks like Commander Riker's younger, fatter, loser of a brother to be labeled "Snake Eyes: Ninja Commando." Does anyone believe that guy could be either a Ninja OR a Commando, much less both?

Returning to the regularly scheduled thread now...

C.I.A.D.

11-10-2007, 09:28 PM

Hey, it signifies an imporant part of joe history...when Snake eyes won "The Biggest Loser" :D

dmooretoys

11-10-2007, 09:49 PM

Well, I seem to have premanently hijacked this thread so I'll post again about the costumes. I just saw these pics from another thread about that awesome toy store in Canada:

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/scrapiron-scavanger/Cool%20Store/?action=view&current=cobraisland1.jpg

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/scrapiron-scavanger/Cool%20Store/?action=view&current=city.jpg

Notice the CG costume on the wall. I wonder if that is a custom or if it is one of the Hasbro character appearance costumes?

Dan

Obiwanjacoby

11-10-2007, 09:57 PM

Notice the CG costume on the wall. I wonder if that is a custom or if it is one of the Hasbro character appearance costumes?

Dan

You think the mask was repainted?

BTW, this is not work. :)

Edit: I would say no. Look at the chest piping or whatever it is.

-PJ

Shogi

11-10-2007, 10:01 PM

Yeah, I'd say it's a custom, looks way too good/close to the original figure to be an "Official" costume :p

Commtech

11-10-2007, 10:30 PM

Getting back on topic, in my case, it would be hard to define collecting as either work or hobby. You see, my real job used to be (and still is) my hobby. I enjoy everything about it. But if we define work as some place where you don't want be, tasks you don't want to do, problems you don't want to solve, waking up early to be someplace when you rather stay in bed, then I would say this was just a hobby for some. Yes, I might get frustrated when I can't find some figure I need or part to complete a restored toy, but at the same time I'm enjoying hunting for it and when I finally find it, I'm the happiest person! I've learned to be patient and I end up finding everything I need, even if it takes me a couple of years.

GunghosLipHair

11-10-2007, 10:57 PM

i dont consider it work cause i hardly bother driving around my neck o the woods cause everything is always scalped in these parts. but then again, i bought a dark ninja master off this board and then stumbled upon one in the penn station kmart ( of all places lol) so once my DNM gets here from the board i will have two lol. BUt i preorder as much as possible cause i know how worthless the hunt is around here.

General Scarlett

11-11-2007, 04:26 AM

You know, after posting pictures, I've come to realize...taking pictures is A LOT of work!

Yes, yes it is........and why I love to do it over on JoeDios.......I'm damned proud of my work.....and the Joeverse I've created...;) :cool:

Obiwanjacoby

11-11-2007, 11:41 AM

Here are some pics of the B.A.T. from Ron Conner's site:

http://www.treasuresntoys.com/file%20copy%20bat%20costume.jpg

Dan

Okay, Ron just got back with me and here's what he said regarding the seller that he dealt with when he bought the B.A.T. costume. . .

Hello again Paul.
Good to hear from you again. Yes, there was a Serpentor Costume. As well as a Dr. Mindbender costume. Even an Overlord costume, but for some reason, that didn't fit in with the 1985-1986 era stuff that was made.

God Bless and Yo Joe,
Ron Conner

Some thoughts:

- Was that work?

Well, not for me. After all, we were just talking Joes and Ron is a very polite and respectable guy. Even if I were hunting this kind of item, it's just mere fan-networking.

- But did I feel that I somehow "deserved" this knowledge, or that Ron somehow "owed" it to me?

No, and I don't think Ron was bending backward to sacrifice anything either. The outcome of one of us being able to buy a costume is purely an ancillary issue to us.

- But. . .maybe he told PJ all of that knowing full well that I wasn't any "competition" to his ability to obtain it.

Oh! Now we're getting somewhere. I could have covered this whole thing up in the name of some sort of subjective "just so" statement, but that wouldn't be very honest, would it?

My goal is moving the info along so that someone with an interest in owning the item will at least share pics and the provenance of the item; in the same spirit that Ron and Dan show to the community.

I especially agree with what Dan wrote (post #75) and think he's being really transparent. He's giving freely without any real loss (financial or otherwise), and it's non-conditional as well. It's a gracious gesture; no strings attached.

That's why both Dan and Ron have my respect. And I don't expect any more from them either in return.

-PJ

General Scarlett

11-11-2007, 12:24 PM

Compulsive Collector

11-11-2007, 12:32 PM

http://www.compulsivecollector.com/arsenal/srs.jpg

I couldn't help it. :p

Honestly, I like action figures, so I buy them. I like hanging them from the wall, so I keep some of them carded. I like posing them, goofing around with the weapons and accessories, and displaying them loose, so I open some of them. It's a great distraction and a fun way to fill some of my time. I even get online to discuss the hobby with other collectors and maintain my own little personal web site.

I can't imagine thinking about it this much, though, and if I did, it would cease to be fun.

tkprime

11-11-2007, 02:09 PM

If it's work, I should be paid overtime, holidays and weekends (LOL)!

Obiwanjacoby

11-12-2007, 02:36 AM

Dude, PJ.......while I appreciate your 'in depth' perspective to this line.......for the love of God, please stop with the psyhco-analyzing of every minute detail...........

It's starting to seem like desperate stretching to me.....

And I'm thinking your above all that.......right?

Not the desperation part; in fact that's exactly what it is. I find it absolutely necessary to make my position clear on this one issue. It's all being recorded you know.

But I promise not to take it to another thread, okay? I just don't want to be misunderstood or seen as something other than who I really am.

Besides, I've come up with a new thread that will definitely go in a more positive direction.

-PJ

Tripwire201

11-12-2007, 11:13 AM

Not the desperation part; in fact that's exactly what it is. I find it absolutely necessary to make my position clear on this one issue. It's all being recorded you know.

Why the desperation? Why is it so important to make your postion clear? Are you referring to your position that collecting isn't work? If so, it's a question with a subjective answer. There is no right answer so why is it so important people know how you feel?

And I'll take the bait, recorded where and for what?

That is if you decide to answer. I notice you've been avoiding me like the plague. That's fine but it's a bit rude to avoid direct questions. I'm playing nice after all.

John

bluebikerboy1

11-12-2007, 12:17 PM

obiwon works for the cia in the stu (special toys unit). hes gathering survaliance to present a report to the general of consumer affairs so they can better understand why a bunch of 20+ men and women still play with plastic dolls (no there not dolls there action figures:p).

:p

Obiwanjacoby

11-12-2007, 03:06 PM

The following statement is very on-topic. Patience, it just takes a bit to draw out.

Why the desperation? Why is it so important to make your postion clear?

See previous posts from others. There was only one other poster that saw my POV clearly and was willing to help clarify it for an otherwise suspicious audience. As a matter of fact, it alleviated much of that initial desperation I had and I feel a whole lot better since. :)

Further, I simply feel that if you want to know someone's opinion on a matter, you just ask. And then their statements stand as they are on their own merits.

For example: I have been frequently accused of being an advocate of some sort of "communism movement" within the hobby, and that the current system is somehow run by a small group of haute bourgeoisie. :rolleyes:

1. This accusation fails to take into account that only one very small aspect of the Joe hobby is actually tied into this, and only digital images at that. This has nothing to do with the actual collectible itself.

2. This accusation places far too much status on those involved in #1., when compared to other members of the hobby.

3. This thread is very effective in demolishing such an accusation, because it's coming up with very little evidence of any Proletarian in this pastime. :cough: Therefore, the accusation is itself patently absurd and wouldn't apply to anyone.*

4. My questions and my demonstrated patience prove a willingness to come to the table and negotiate, rather than fling invectives, baseless accusations, or ad hominem arguments. Some just haven't caught on to this yet, or are unwilling to catch on.

Is toy collecting work? <--- No one is forced to answer this open question and no one is forced to partcipate.

yes/no

If "yes" then is it the same kind of work that would support an accusation that PJ is a "toy commie"?

Well, it's a stretch at best, and very few have answered my initial question in a manner that would even begin to support that. Furthermore, the evidence points to the fact that PJ opposes the tiered system that would give him the motive to stage a "plastic revolution" to begin with! LOL! ^_^.

No workie, no commie.

And I'll take the bait, recorded where and for what?

That wasn't bait. See? You ^^^ attached a motive that wasn't actually featured in my statements. That was (by the nature of the statement) an appeal to motive fallacy. It's the reason why we have problems communicating.

Besides, I was referring to Jane Goodall over there in the corner observing us as if we were chimps. :D :rolleyes:

-PJ

*At best, it could be a case of a "Reductio ad absurdum" argument, but that wouldn't make it any less silly.

Tripwire201

11-12-2007, 04:35 PM

For example: I have been frequently accused of being an advocate of some sort of "communism movement" within the hobby, and that the current system is somehow run by a small group of haute bourgeoisie. :rolleyes:.

It's not only you but do you deny making illuminati accusations? Many have in this and other hobbies. Believe me, the people accused would love to dispel that myth.

2. This accusation places far too much status on those involved in #1., when compared to other members of the hobby.

Right, and that's the problem. Those accused do not feel like they are in fact what they are accused of. I don't think anybody runs things. It seems to be the belief of some though. However, that does not mean that some do not work harder than others at collecting. It also doesn't mean that some don't do more for the hobby. Even without the ridiculous titles applied to hard workers they still work hard none-the-less.

3. This thread is very effective in demolishing such an accusation, because it's coming up with very little evidence of any Proletarian in this pastime. :cough: Therefore, the accusation is itself patently absurd and wouldn't apply to anyone.*

Could not agree more. People have been crying for years that there is no "inner circle" but there seems to be some weird attachment of that name to guys who either work hard, have refined/esoteric taste, or both.

Is toy collecting work? <--- No one is forced to answer this open question and no one is forced to partcipate.

yes/no

As I stated earlier, for me, and others at times, yes.

If "yes" then is it the same kind of work that would support an accusation that PJ is a "toy commie"?

There's not even a correlation betwen the two. I'm not sure how you'd even come to that conclusion. I work hard so you have communist views? Sorry, PJ, trying hard to see this one but it's just not working for me.

However, on a completed related yet unrelated note I made a Communist reference to something you said in another thread. Pretty ironic. It has nothing to do with work just the way you say things. A desire for all to share to the point where it almost feels like you demand they share definitely reeks of Communism.

Well, it's a stretch at best, and very few have answered my initial question in a manner that would even begin to support that.

I answered your thread pretty point blank early on. However, working hard at collecting, upper/lower class collectors, and Communism are really flying off in different directions. The 3 do not go hand in hand. If one works hard at collecting it doesn't mean they are doing anything for the community. If one works hard and does a lot it doesn't make them better or some sort of elitist but it does mean they do more. Should people who do more have titles as you stated? Personally, I'm not even sure if that was a joke or not. I find it ridiculous. I'm a class 2 collector. AHAHAHA Bow before me. ;^) However, people should be recognized for contributions since as I said so many times it's a thankless job manytimes trying to help the community.

Furthermore, the evidence points to the fact that PJ opposes the tiered system that would give him the motive to stage a "plastic revolution" to begin with! LOL! ^_^.

This is my own quirk but please stop referring to yourself in 3rd person. It's kind of wierd.

Once again, though, what does a tier system have to do with working hard? Your mistake is you seem to assume a hard worker elevates himself to some imaginary higher station. Not true. Others elevate hard workers more than they do themselves.

That wasn't bait. See? You ^^^ attached a motive that wasn't actually featured in my statements. That was (by the nature of the statement) an appeal to motive fallacy. It's the reason why we have problems communicating.

It was sarcasm.

Besides, I was referring to Jane Goodall over there in the corner observing us as if we were chimps. :D :rolleyes:

Yes, that was quite clear. :)

John

OUTBACK

11-12-2007, 04:41 PM

you people have way to much time on your hands.

can we just buy the figures and shut up?

Obiwanjacoby

11-12-2007, 05:29 PM

It's not only you but do you deny making illuminati accusations? Many have in this and other hobbies. Believe me, the people accused would love to dispell that myth.

Honestly? Myself and other fans would be more than willing to help dispel that myth if loaded terms weren't used to describe certain collectors in relation to others.

Examples such as "inner circle"*, "high-end", "levels", "serious", and "casual" collectors are thrown about in a very careless manner and cause a division between "you" and "they". Based on earlier posts here, you can't fairly accuse me of starting it, but I can promise to do my part not to add to it. On that you can be sure I am in 100% agreement.

Right, and that's the problem. Those accused do not feel like they are in fact what they are accused of. I don't think anybody runs things. It seems to be the belief of some though.

It's reflected in the behavior and terms used above. Using myself as an example, I have demonstrated with others here how that would be insulting and condescending in a genuine sense.

However, that does not mean that some do not work harder than others at collecting. It also doesn't mean that some don't do more for the hobby. Even without the ridiculous titles applied to hard workers they still work hard none-the-less.

In my opinion, it's only one very small aspect of the hobby. As a matter of fact, very few Joe fans even have an interest in it at all. This is where we share the same goals. I think many of us here wish to promote the historical aspect of the hobby more.

It's only the labeling we can do without. And since that has been admitted on all sides as not necessarily valid, as well as purely subjective, we can then move on from there as truly friendly fans without a heirarchy.

Could not agree more. People have been crying for years that there is no "inner circle" but there seems to be some weird attachment of that name to guys who either work hard, have refined/esoteric taste, or both.

I am asking for their help in that regard. Much in the same way the GIJoe club doesn't want to be called Mastercollector, I would encourage all fans to avoid personal self promotion and an agenda of hierarchy.

There's not even a correlation betwen the two. I'm not sure how you'd even come to that conclusion. I work hard so you have communist views? Sorry, PJ, trying hard to see this one but it's just not working for me.

Because it was attached to me personally without my endorsement. I'm glad you see it the same way I do. It's just another label without anything real behind it.

However, on a completed related yet unrelated note I made a Communist reference to something you said in another thread. Pretty ironic. It has nothing to do with work just the way you say things. A desire for all to share to the point where it almost feels like you demand they share definitely reeks of Communism.

Maybe on a surface level, but not when you ask questions like:

- Share what specifically?

- Where is the "means of production"? The secondary market???

- Who are the proles?

- And if PJ personally does not support, endorse, or advocate a Joe collector hierarchy, or "Joelluminati" (or whatever), as stated before, he has no motive to become a toy Trotsky. ;) :p.

Therefore, many have confused the growing, learning, flesh-and-blood Obiwanjacoby for a straw-man to joust with.

If one works hard and does a lot it doesn't make them better or some sort of elitist but it does mean they do more.

I agree. The only issue is when they put their hands out for something extra as stated earlier. Both Irid and Scarlett have shown their reactions to this, and I am sure many-many other Joe fans would feel the same. And a whole new generation of Joe fans have recently jumped on the wagon, making the behavior I spoke of even more divisive to the overall community. Hisstank is one of the few places that is willing to let us work the issue out.

Should people who do more have titles as you stated? Personally, I'm not even sure if that was a joke or not. I find it ridiculous. I'm a class 2 collector. AHAHAHA Bow before me. ;^) However, people should be recognized for contributions since as I said so many times it's a thankless job manytimes trying to help the community.

That's the point entirely. Are we honestly trying to promote the historical aspect of GIJoe more than the individual who's helping promote it? That's a question everyone should ask themselves. Because if it is the other way around, that's when the blood is poured into the water. I will be the first to admit guilt in adding to it. Now, I try my very best to thank the hobbyist for their hard work, but not elevate them to a level of fame that is unwarranted.

This is my own quirk but please stop referring to yourself in 3rd person. It's kind of wierd.

But PJ feels bullied, pushed, and manipulated by such a statement. ;)

Once again, though, what does a tier system have to do with working hard? Your mistake is you seem to assume a hard worker elevates himself to some imaginary higher station. Not true. Others elevate hard workers more than they do themselves.

As stated above, I agree with that and have been guilty of doing it myself.

But where do you draw the line?

How do you know the difference between simple endorsement and personal self-promotion?

The clues would come from both the source and the context of the posts as I have demonstrated last week.

It was sarcasm.

Accepted. Now then, is the responsibility on me to recognize that in the future, or yours to make clearer for more effective communication. Do we want to genuinely get along or cause more confusion?

Yes, that was quite clear. :)

Then please-please don't place yourself in the position as if I was baiting you. Because now you're admitting that I wasn't really to begin with.

I'm doing my part to get along, and I'm asking for your help.

-PJ

*Referring to an exclusive group within the Joe community itself, as opposed to the "outer" circle of general toy collectible/antique enthusiasts I commonly refer to.

Xerofall

11-12-2007, 05:52 PM

I hope you few guys know that the rest of us just scroll past posts that exceed a certain length and only read the ones that are three paragraphs or less.

At least for me. :D

It's work trying to explain to my wife why we all need at least two of each of the 25th figures, one to open and one to keep MOC. Yes, it's work.

Obiwanjacoby

11-12-2007, 06:11 PM

I hope you few guys know that the rest of us just scroll past posts that exceed a certain length and only read the ones that are three paragraphs or less.

No problem with that Xero. Like I've said before, your level of participation is purely optional and no one's being forced to engage any deeper than they want to go.

-PJ

C.I.A.D.

11-12-2007, 06:46 PM

You know what's work? Having to read a few newly added chapters of "War & Peace: HissTank Edition" every time I read this thread.

Here's an idea, bare with me as I throw it out there:

Instead of talking about changing perceptions, how about just doing it? Eh? Good stuff, no? Might just work, too ;)

You know what else is work? Changing o-rings. I get like an angry primate when I finally have the friggin' thing around the peg, the arms and head are in place....I go to snap the friggin' two halves together and BOOM. Friggin' thing falls apart. I swear I would fling poo right then & there if it were socially acceptable.

OUTBACK

11-12-2007, 06:49 PM

LMAO Xero...i was just thinking the same thing!.

not to sound rude, but honestly, i don't read anything that long. it gives me a headache just thinking about sitting there and writing all that...i just scroll right past it.

i just don't get it. yall need to relax, this ain't that serious.

C.I.A.D.

11-12-2007, 06:57 PM

i just don't get it. yall need to relax, this ain't that serious.

Well, as we don't know the history, it's not our place to say what is or isn't serious ;)

We can, however, ask that while here on this board, we all just move forward and leave past perceptions where ever they came from.

You know what's work? Standing on this soap box.

OUTBACK

11-12-2007, 07:08 PM

yea!! get off your soap box!

C.I.A.D.

11-12-2007, 07:11 PM

yea!! get off your soap box!

GET OFF MY LAWN!

Another aspect that I find to be "work" (but fun work) is archiving my collection. Every time I obtain a new piece, I add it to the "list":

Year
Faction
Name
Condition

That being said, when Hasbro releases 3753748563746543 & 1 B.A.T.s (not that that's a bad thing), it gets kinda old to have to look up what version it is (ie - BAT v7 vers. 24 div. 2 powerball 9)

Obiwanjacoby

11-12-2007, 07:28 PM

Instead of talking about changing perceptions, how about just doing it? Eh? Good stuff, no? Might just work, too ;)

As stated before in previous posts, I'm willing to take the first step. This will be my final post on this thread; I'm walking away clean. My POV is clear and doesn't need any more help.

-PJ

C.I.A.D.

11-12-2007, 07:31 PM

Well, if that's the case, why walk away instead of continuing to contribute in a manner that engages us all to chime in and share our opinions? ;)

Obiwanjacoby

11-12-2007, 07:40 PM

Well, if that's the case, why walk away instead of continuing to contribute in a manner that engages us all to chime in and share our opinions? ;)

Because you can do it just as well without me now. I'm totally spent and I have no axe to grind. I also want to take your advice and practice what I'm preaching. ;)

Okay, I mean it. That was 100% for sure, I swear absolutely the very last and final time I post on this thread. :D

-PJ

Shane Turgeon

11-12-2007, 08:31 PM

*Post has been blacked out. If you care to read it, highlight the post. Please Note - It does not pertain to "you", and shouldn't be commented on unless you are one of the parties involved.

Well, if that's the case, why walk away instead of continuing to contribute in a manner that engages us all to chime in and share our opinions? ;)

'Cause that just ain't Paul's MO. He claims he has no axe to grind yet here he is, 12 pages on, railing on with the same tirade, about the same subject with people he refuses to name yet clearly is directing his agenda towards.

Please don't go Paul. I have some questions i'd *really* like you to answer.

Seriously why don't you quit hiding behind it all and come out and name the people you clearly have a problem with. Who is it Paul, that is labeling and shamelessly self-promoting themselves to such a serious degree causing you the need put us all through this? Who is it who claims to have such a fan base and wield such rampant fame in the hobby?

It's no secret that you and i don't get along. Your vieled pot shots here on Hisstank before i was even member, your recent attempts to bait me on yojoe and RS and our long history are, at the risk of sounding oh so vain and famous (that was sarcasm, BTW because you seem to have a hard time reading it), strong indicators that you *might* be referencing me.

So i'm gonna play your game, calling you outright and i hope that you answer me directly instead of ignoring outright points that prove you wrong, as you've been so apt to do in the past. Now, let's compare me against three people you clearly admire (and that a case could be made that you are a FAN of) being that you've referenced them in this and previous threads in the past.

Ron Connor:
-Has a handful of submissions to yojoe.com (a site you have revered in the past and blamed me for not contributing to ad nauseum despite me repeatedly telling you i have sumitted a lot of stuff that didn't go online when NO ONE WAS UPDATING THAT SITE).
-Runs his own website where he shares photos and info of the items you think belong to everyone.
-Has written books about toy collecting
-Rarely posts on message boards but does help when he sees the threads
-Gladly answers questions in emails when people ask them of him
-Doesn't publically share every item in his collection

Shane Turgeon:
-Has a handful of submissions to yojoe.com
-Runs his own website where he shared photos and info of the items you think belong to everyone.
-Has written books about toy collecting
-Rarely posts on Joe message boards but does help when he sees the threads
-Gladly answers questions in emails when people ask them of him
-Doesn't publically share every item in his collection

Dan Moore:
-Worked for yojoe for a short period but quit after running into the same problems that plagued yojoe for years.
-Instead has his photos on his webshots page
-Starting a new Joe website dedicated to stuff not dealt with on yojoe.
-Gladly answers questions in emails when people ask them of him
-Doesn't publically share every item in his collection

Shane Turgeon:
-Offered his services to yojoe to help them revamp their pro-prod archive but withdrew the offer after over a year of getting no response
-Instead has his photos on his own website
-Has been helping Dan Moore get his new website off the ground for over a year
-Gladly answers questions in emails when people ask them of him
-Doesn't publically share every item in his collection

Mark Bellomo:
-Has no submissions on yojoe
-Has written books about toy collecting
-Gives presentations at conventions
-Rarely posts on Joe message boards but does help when he sees the threads
-Gladly answers questions in emails when people ask them of him
-Doesn't publically share every item in his collection

Shane Turgeon:
-Has written books about toy collecting
-Gives presentations at conventions
-Has helped Mark Bellemo with his presentations in the past
-Rarely posts on Joe message boards but does help when he sees the threads
-Gladly answers questions in emails when people ask them of him
-Doesn't publically share every item in his collection

Both Kevin and Peter have similar stories to mine and solid credentials themsevles, be it their work on yojoe.com, projectpdd.com, Kevin's interview with Ron Rudat, etc...

So there are the stats Paul. Why the hard on for us? Why the clearly veiled agenda against a handful of us? Is it because of our charm and good looks or is it because we're the only ones who actually publically defend our position against your rantings?

Don't hide behind it anymore. Don't try to wind people around with circular posts for 12 pages. Don't hide behind socio and psycho rhetoric. You crave clarity and "open discussion". You claim to be a "new" Paul, trying to turn over a new leaf. So man up and prove it. Let it out Paul; it'll be cathartic.

Tripwire201

11-12-2007, 08:35 PM

You know what's work? Having to read a few newly added chapters of "War & Peace: HissTank Edition" every time I read this thread.

You, sir, are a shining example of what I mean by " a thankless job". You get paid zip yet have to put up with us monkeys tossing poop at each other. ;) I feel like I should thank you for tolerating but that would needleesly elevate you. Since you are in it for the hobby thanks are not needed.

Doesn't that sound terrible? To me it does and I think any mod, admin, editor, etc. deserves thanks for all they do to make the hobby, fun, civil, and informed. I'm not sure at all how it elevates people but it does show that some appreciate the job they do and the thanks alone make the job worth doing.

And Paul, I really didn't get the "Goodall" inference. That was more sarcasm, thus the smiley. I have no idea what you meant by that. The only one observing and recording is poor Tommy. LOL (I mean I get what you meant after you mentioned Jane but I just don't see where it even came from) Unless you're actually writing a collector report as somebody joked. ;)

John

C.I.A.D.

11-12-2007, 08:37 PM

So how about those Knicks?

And thanks, 201, but honestly, I don't feel as though I deserve any praise. I'm just a member here "shootin' the crap" with other likeminded individuals. It's always great to know that there are others out there "like me", so I feel more like "the buddy who cleans up beer bottles at someones house after a party than the "OMNIPOTENT MOD THAT WILL BAN YOU IF YOU DARE SAY THAT THE SWAMPMASHER IS A CRAPPY VEHICLE!".

Gentlemen, I've been more than happy to step aside and let you discuss things in hopes of getting everyone on the same page and on to bigger & better things.

That being said, ObiWan, I ask that you be so kind as to contact Shane via PM to discuss this issue further, rather than disect his post here.

Shane, I'm going to "black out" your post. It'll still be there, but with a cautionary blurb, so that those who aren't involved don't have to read it.

I can completely understand & appreciate the sentiment behind the posts, but with all due respect, Gents, others here may not know of your personal issues, and may not want to feel involved. Unfortunately, posted "out there in the open", only causes others to draw conclusions.

Like I said before..there's always 3 sides to the story, one of them being the truth. Those involved in this scenario know what that truth is. The rest of us don't.

See? I just broke a friggin' hole through my soap box for standing on it. Good job, guys.

Tommy_Garvey

11-12-2007, 09:25 PM

I feel like I should thank you for tolerating but that would needleesly elevate you. Since you are in it for the hobby thanks are not needed.

Doesn't that sound terrible? To me it does and I think any mod, admin, editor, etc. deserves thanks for all they do to make the hobby, fun, civil, and informed. I'm not sure at all how it elevates people but it does show that some appreciate the job they do and the thanks alone make the job worth doing.

If that's the argument, there are several societies that practice that exact behavior. "Insulting the meat" as it were, where one is required to always downplay the contributions made by others, so that they don't think they have power over you or are above you. Interesting practice, but I don't think it really fits into the hobby environment. I think the hobby would quickly become a very dull, confrontational place where nobody ever shared anything.

And Paul, I really didn't get the "Goodall" inference. That was more sarcasm, thus the smiley. I have no idea what you meant by that. The only one observing and recording is poor Tommy. LOL (I mean I get what you meant after you mentioned Jane but I just don't see where it even came from) Unless you're actually writing a collector report as somebody joked. ;)

If Paul was talking about me, he's right as I am recording all of this in my "Inner Circle" files. :) In case anyone wondered, yes, cultural anthropology really is the closest science comes to stalking. ;)

Honestly, I'm having trouble following just what this thread is about now though. It lost me at the Joe costumes. I guess I'm just still trying to figure out the "Valued member of the community= Work = non-hobby/possibly communist" connection. Maybe it's just me though. ;)

Tommy