Hasbro!!!

[Jinx723]

So today, early this morning I went on a Wal-Mart hunt. As usual I didn't find jack $#!+. I was hoping I'd find at least one of the new vehicles, yeah right. It's already October and retailers still haven't recieved Wave 10. This is just plain ridiculous. I'm sick and tired of finding the same @*%!ing Wave 7 revisions. Now we all know that Wave 10 won't hit pegs 'til they move all these revisions that keep poping up every week. Hasbro definetly is not helping by shipping nothing but revision cases. What pissed me off the most, I checked HTS after my useless hunt. What do I find Wave 10 sold out, WTF!!!
Hasbro has a cash cow on their hands and it seems that they intentionally want the line to fail. Keep sending these revisions that most of us have and they're just gonna clog the pegs. Retailers are gonna see that they are not selling so they'll stop ordering and we are just gonna be $#!+ out of luck and not have Joes, again. I'm not a genius but common sense from Hasbro can save this line and make it more profitable.
This line is being kept afloat through us the 'collectors'. I can understand revisions, giving others a chance to catch up on what was in very low quantities at the beginning of the 25th Ann. line. I can understand re-releasing; Wave 1 Flint, Snake-Eyes w/ Timber. W2 Beach-Head, W3 Firefly, W5 Flash, & Snow Job. And of course all of Wave 6. But this constant releases of Wave 7,8, & 9 is just plain stupid especially in the quantities we're getting. Honestly how many of you are sick of seeing Urban Roadblock, Jet Pack Duke, Wild Bill, TF Flint, Python Officer and Cobra Commander? If I could get a dollar for every time I see these figures I could buy Hasbro. I totally understand revisions but you got to put figures people want on the pegs. We always bitch on how hard it is to army build get the B.A.T.s, Snow Serpents, Eels, Para Vipers etc get those on the pegs. Each character should not be produced in exact quantities, army building characters should be produced at least 20% more than named characters.
I know there is no way to completely make every collector happy, but Hasbro's got THINK before they do something. Honestly, all these revisions we're getting I would have waited until the holidays or even right before the movie gets released. But uncle Hasbro wants to just focus on the movie line only, then so be it. I for one will be taking a break when the movie line comes out. I just pray that the movie does well, for the sake of the movie toy line. Hopefully after the movie line Hasbro puts more effort into the regular line and stop treating us like idiots.
Sorry for the extra long drama but I had to get this off my chest. This pass year I've always back Hasbro thanked them in person for what they have given us but now I'm not as happy as before and I can see why some people thrash Hasbro the way they do. Like I said hopefully things will change...

[Syn3sthesia]

You know perhaps they are driving us to that...to order thru their HTS site.

I feel your pain, I see the same figs everytime I go out.

[The Albino Ice-Snake]

I also feel your pain.

My Local Walmart has 10 or more of
SE Wave 7
Wild Bill
Spirit
Jet pack duke.

We just have to be patient. (Sigh)

[Troynos]

My local wal-mart doesn't carry the vehicles at all.

BTW, Hasbro doesn't control what stores order and what sells at different stores. Wal-Mart doesn't pay attention to the figures, they pay attention to numbers. They order basic cases and they get extras of the figures that don't sell, so those figures stack up on the shelf and it prevents them from ordering more cases because the space they have allocated for the figures is taken up.

[Syn3sthesia]

Add this to all of that...

Pricewise HTS still the best offer out there. My local Target has dropped their prices on singles in an effort to sell them but nobody wants anymore BBqs or Ninja Kus.

But the cheeky monkeys raised the price of the comic packs to join the competion of other retailers. So now comic packs are 10.99.

At this rate the lack of new waves, pegwarmers and more price increases is going to kill this line.

[snakeeyes1976]

You took the word right out of my mouth i mean come on lets get on with the new stuff or at least the retailers make more room for joes so they can add new ones ... everytime i go to walmart, and target its a waste of gas ... but for those who missed out on the first time thats ccool ... but dont keep sending stuff that is over flowing the pegs and causing the new line not to show up .. and your right if the retailer sees that they are not selling they might stop ordering .... Iam with you i feel your pain

[Zer0G]

Yeah I spend the morning hitting 4 Stores and the past 2 weeks its been dry. I took to ordering through Ebay and other online retailers for the items.

[Troynos]

Again, hate to say it, and I wish it wasn't true, but the store itself doesn't control what sells and what stays on the pegs. They also don't get to necessarily pick and choose what comes in the cases they order. They don't keep track that the BBQs aren't selling so next time they order that case they don't want to include more BBQs. Their system just says to "buy case 1".

Sucks, but that's the way it happens.

[C.I.A.D.]

It's not Hasbro's fault. Stores will not re-stock until their stock levels are low. Does it suck? Sure it does. But until those shelves start emptying out, it's going to be hard to find newer stuff.

Remember the days when we couldn't find anything? Now we find wave 7 - 9 in piles. Someone needs to start buying those wild bills, dangit!

[The Albino Ice-Snake]

Did someone say it was the stores fault?

I must have missed that. I dont think Walmart says to Hasbo "Please send us the old, no longer in demand Joes.
I think Hasbro Chooses what case they want to send the store.

WILD BILL is killing me. LOL.

Released again when HASBRO flooded the stores with Wave 7 months ago.

Released AGAIN with Wave 9.

Released AGAIN with one of the Wave 8 Revisions.

AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGG!!!

(Not to mention to be released as repaints with TRU senior 3 pack and new comic 2 packs)

Sorry WildBill but I am starting to hate you. LOL!

(Before Anyone Gets Mad, It should be obvious I am not serious)

[RAR]

Roger that Troynos! I would hate to have to order product for a big store like WM. Will it blow out of stock or will it hang around forever?

That is the frustrating part of "big box stores" where the employees have little control over what comes in and the customer has no ability to provide input.

Definitely would have been smarter for Hasbro to put out revision cases with fewer W7-9 Joes based on the numbers of Joes hanging around.

Why do they refuse to listen to me?

Now, I must get back to trying to take over the world! :)

[snakeeyes1976]

thats true but man this redos have to stop for a bit and bring in the new stuff ..... lol

[snakeeyes1976]

but you know it will all work out soon

[gunslingercbr]

you find empty pegs, people bitch. you find the pegs full, people bitch. doesn't seem to me that Hasbro is the problem. every figure warming the pegs right now was difficult at first to find when the pegs were always empty, so logic entails later on the figures being released new now will be the same in a few waves. so, be patient. if you can't, that seems more of your own problem than Hasbro's.

[Headman]

Dammit! Hasbro should know what I already have! :)

[skyhawkpilot]

I fully understand. I have 6 different stores to hit in Lake Charles and still get the same results. Nottadamting!!!!!!!

[snakeeyes1976]

it can be frustrating knowing that in a different part of your state is getting like wave 10 and the new vehicles like here in texas . south texas is finding everything but here its dry .... maybe they are in the back but they cant put them out because pegs are full or they have not reach your part of the state ... but again its frustrating and i really dont want to order on line its more fun finding them on the pegs

[thunderdan19]

you find empty pegs, people bitch. you find the pegs full, people bitch. doesn't seem to me that Hasbro is the problem. every figure warming the pegs right now was difficult at first to find when the pegs were always empty, so logic entails later on the figures being released new now will be the same in a few waves. so, be patient. if you can't, that seems more of your own problem than Hasbro's.

Hey... you with the logic... cut it out.

These people require something to complain about and someone to blame... for everything... or haven't you been reading the posts over the past few days?

Hate hate hate... Rant rant rant... Moan moan moan... Complain complain complain...

Why so serious? :D

[Cobra]

What I don't understand is, Hasbro knows people want to army build. They have army builder sets on HTS for Star Wars. I can buy a Troop Builder 8-Pack of stormtroopers right now on HTS. Why can't they do that for G. I. Joe?

[fogger1138]

BTW, Hasbro doesn't control what stores order and what sells at different stores. Wal-Mart doesn't pay attention to the figures, they pay attention to numbers. They order basic cases and they get extras of the figures that don't sell, so those figures stack up on the shelf and it prevents them from ordering more cases because the space they have allocated for the figures is taken up.

Quoted for truth.

Dammit! Hasbro should know what I already have! :)

Seriously. Everything is Hasbro's fault, apparently.

[Echo7Solo]

you find empty pegs, people bitch. you find the pegs full, people bitch. doesn't seem to me that Hasbro is the problem. every figure warming the pegs right now was difficult at first to find when the pegs were always empty, so logic entails later on the figures being released new now will be the same in a few waves. so, be patient. if you can't, that seems more of your own problem than Hasbro's.

yeah I agree with this one.

[snakeeyes1976]

good question ... i think they need to make more room for joes like they do for star wars , transformers and such ... i cant remember did they do this in the 80,s with waves or did they put out more than the newer waves

[fogger1138]

you find empty pegs, people bitch. you find the pegs full, people bitch.

We need a list of who is bitching so we can collate and compare, and see if it's the same people bitching both times. :) I doubt it, but it'd be fun.

Bitch list:

fogger1138: bitched about bitching

2C(

[toolrocks302]

I agree, it's gotten to the point where the online retailers are getting shipments first, when it's usually the other way around.

[fogger1138]

I agree, it's gotten to the point where the online retailers are getting shipments first, when it's usually the other way around.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing? I've seen a lot of people complaining when the online retailers don't get shipments first, but never the other way 'round.

[VIPER 48]

you find empty pegs, people bitch. you find the pegs full, people bitch. doesn't seem to me that Hasbro is the problem. every figure warming the pegs right now was difficult at first to find when the pegs were always empty, so logic entails later on the figures being released new now will be the same in a few waves. so, be patient. if you can't, that seems more of your own problem than Hasbro's.

Agreed...

[topnotch97]

hey, buzzer has seen at least 3 times of price hikes. :D

[darthdoug]

My local wal-mart doesn't carry the vehicles at all.

BTW, Hasbro doesn't control what stores order and what sells at different stores. Wal-Mart doesn't pay attention to the figures, they pay attention to numbers. They order basic cases and they get extras of the figures that don't sell, so those figures stack up on the shelf and it prevents them from ordering more cases because the space they have allocated for the figures is taken up.

Kinda correct. Keep in mind that HASBRO has special liason's stationed in Bentonville Arkansas to serve as product lobbyists to the buyers. They would communicate to them which waves need to be purchased and distributed and why they will drive those numbers. They buyers consistently look at past numbers to predict future demand. Apparently... someone left STOSH alone with the lobbyist and he ordered a lot of the repack waves because the Hasbro liason made a great case for why customers would buy them up. Apparently, the collector is missed in this conversation.

[spacemonkeymafia]

It's not Hasbro's fault. Stores will not re-stock until their stock levels are low. Does it suck? Sure it does. But until those shelves start emptying out, it's going to be hard to find newer stuff.

Remember the days when we couldn't find anything? Now we find wave 7 - 9 in piles. Someone needs to start buying those wild bills, dangit!

If I suck it up and do buy all those Wild Bills someone better get me a case of wave 10 and 11......lol

[spacemonkeymafia]

good question ... i think they need to make more room for joes like they do for star wars , transformers and such ... i cant remember did they do this in the 80,s with waves or did they put out more than the newer waves

If there was a Top selling Comic or a Very watched TV show Im sure the space would be bigger.....next summer you will see an increase of space for Joes....but at that point it will be too late for me......

Hasbro needs to start back with the 25th line in Jan 09 and use the push the movie will have.........

[snakeeyes1976]

i know it sounds stupid but you would think they would have kinda of a bigger section you know

[Deckard]

i love how retailers take forever to stock new stuff and online retailers seem to sell out in NANOSECONDS and even if you can get anything online (im sorry paying 21.99 for a firebat on bbts is a frackin joke and thats not including shipping) you then have to pay shipping ontop of the inflated prices and too many retailers are trying to encourage online buying...like its so safe. HA!!! I can personally attest to having my info stolen on more than one occasion when i have bought online from supposed "secure" sites. I will never buy on line again.

[CobraVirus]

Maybe the next custom contest should be the best original charactor made out of peg warmers.

[Tomahawk]

Did someone say it was the stores fault?

I must have missed that. I dont think Walmart says to Hasbo "Please send us the old, no longer in demand Joes.
I think Hasbro Chooses what case they want to send the store.

WILD BILL is killing me. LOL.

Released again when HASBRO flooded the stores with Wave 7 months ago.

Released AGAIN with Wave 9.

Released AGAIN with one of the Wave 8 Revisions.

AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGG!!!

(Not to mention to be released as repaints with TRU senior 3 pack and new comic 2 packs)

Sorry WildBill but I am starting to hate you. LOL!

no more wild bills

[Shin Densetsu]

IF the movie toy line does well, it bodes well for us. Transformers fans got the Classics/Universe line revived because of the movie line sales.

Topnotch..your sig...damn...I want to recast the joe movie with those actresses!

[spacemonkeymafia]

IF the movie toy line does well, it bodes well for us. Transformers fans got the Classics/Universe line revived because of the movie line sales.

Topnotch..your sig...damn...I want to recast the joe movie with those actresses!

Yep......although TF Classics was a filler line and has not lasted as long as the 25th line......after the movie we got Prowl, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, Ironhide....ect...ect.....

If you just have some patience and wait till after the movie i have a feeling we will be rewarded........plus damn I can use the break......

[sweeper]

Wild Bill you son of a bitch!!! This is why back in the 80's they only released vehicle drivers WITH VEHICLES. Or as mail away offers. They had the good sense to know not to do this back then...what happened, did hasbro forget how to do business.

[Deckard]

initially yeah tf classics was only supposed to be a filler wave which is sad cause if that line had kept going before this despression we may have seen some really cool new stuff like possibly headmaster how cool would that have been. Maybe we still might but given that would require new molds which hasbro hates to do i doubt it. how cool would a new fort max, "REAL" scorponok or any of the other head masters or target masters be? I'd be all over that.

[Deckard]

Wild Bill you son of a bitch!!! This is why back in the 80's they only released vehicle drivers WITH VEHICLES. Or as mail away offers. They had the good sense to know not to do this back then...what happened, did hasbro forget how to do business.

the short answer is...YES THEY DID!!!

[spacemonkeymafia]

initially yeah tf classics was only supposed to be a filler wave which is sad cause if that line had kept going before this despression we may have seen some really cool new stuff like possibly headmaster how cool would that have been. Maybe we still might but given that would require new molds which hasbro hates to do i doubt it. how cool would a new fort max, "REAL" scorponok or any of the other head masters or target masters be? I'd be all over that.

Have you seen Cyclonus he is a Target Master? He looks mighty nice......and Im sure with them doing the 25th year with TF we will get a Headmaster somewhere....

[mister-x]

i got all the new vehicles yesterday (minus sharc) at walmart and i finaly got a black head destro today yea!!! not bragging about the vehicles, just letting you know they are on the way.....as far as the revision cases...thats all there is around here, and wave9, wave 10 has yet to arive :(

[Deckard]

so cyclonus is his TM version? SCHWEEEEEETTTT. I thought it might be but i wasnt sure. oh i hope we get my fave tm...pointblank and peacemaker. I would go ape!!

[spacemonkeymafia]

so cyclonus is his TM version? SCHWEEEEEETTTT. I thought it might be but i wasnt sure. oh i hope we get my fave tm...pointblank and peacemaker. I would go ape!!

Transformers Toys News and Reviews G1 to Movie - TFormers.com (http://tformers.com/gv.php?mode=view&album=360&pic=838750000_653569354543_pkg_.jpg&dispsize=600&start=0)

TF08 - Transformers In China • View topic - 2008.9.30 universe Cyclonus (http://www.tf08.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60)

I love to meet a fellow Transfan dude he looks sweet.....

[Deckard]

ooohhhh yyyeeeeaaahhhhh. i did see hound...dont care for his vehicle mode much(looks kinda dumd)...but his robot mode is sweet. I want sideswipe and who knows maybe we'll see a redone hot rod blurr and kup as TM'? alonw with the others? ohhh man im gettin jiggy just thinkin about that. heehee

[Ggould1975]

Yeah i hear ya about wasting gas to go joe searching but that's what it's all about though. How else you gonna get them without searching? But yeah i get sick of it at times, i look basically everyday, but on weekends i don't look at all because i have never seen new joes stocked on a weekend. I've noticed that new ones come out on either a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. All new ones i have got i picked up on those days.

[spacemonkeymafia]

Have you see the Fan made Armor for Ultra Magnus?
Its Hella sweet.........too much for my Blood but damn I want it.......

Ultra Magnus - Classics Universe - Toy Gallery - Photos 1 - 25 (http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/toys/classics/ultra-magnus/1585/)

[green firefly]

I believe Hasbro is currently doing what they need to in order to sell the greatest amount of GI Joe toys - because the market is not nearly as big as some would think.

[Deckard]

HOLY CHRIST!!!! Man what i wouldnt give to have my classics back (had to sell them about a year ago to get by) thats the sickest goddamn thing i have ever seen!!!!

[spacemonkeymafia]

Yeah its sick............

[245am]

Have you seen Cyclonus he is a Target Master? He looks mighty nice......and Im sure with them doing the 25th year with TF we will get a Headmaster somewhere....

so cyclonus is his TM version? SCHWEEEEEETTTT. I thought it might be but i wasnt sure. oh i hope we get my fave tm...pointblank and peacemaker. I would go ape!!

it is an f'ing sweet figure that would never have gotten made if Hasbro wasn't responding to the serious collectors...and people over at tfw2005 are bitching about the paint app (or lack there of) on his face... you can't please everybody all the time, and by "everybody" I mean us...

HOLY CHRIST!!!! Man what i wouldnt give to have my classics back (had to sell them about a year ago to get by) thats the sickest goddamn thing i have ever seen!!!!

agreed- and let me put this thought into your head... it'll never happen but there was a thread about a similar armor set for the Masterpiece Ultra Magnus. yeah. a Masterpiece UM with full trailer and armor, and the cab folding up into his chest. yeah. imagine how tight that would be...

[Deckard]

i saw that on an old site dedicated to customizers and the thing was so freakin insnane(some dude in canada had made both a transformable armor trailer for magnus and a dead on balls accurate in size and everything trailer for the MP prime). He wated an ungodly amount for it but im telling you man if i had had the scrip for it i woulda bought it. The site is long since gone since the main guy who ran it died but i thing it merged with another site. still i saw a magnus trailer for the mp magnus and my god it was awesome!!!!

[topnotch97]

Topnotch..your sig...damn...I want to recast the joe movie with those actresses!

for real?!?!?! it would be a smash hit!!!!! :D

i'll watch the movie like several times then. LOL!!!

[Lt. Faceless]

i saw that on an old site dedicated to customizers and the thing was so freakin insnane(some dude in canada had made both a transformable armor trailer for magnus and a dead on balls accurate in size and everything trailer for the MP prime). He wated an ungodly amount for it but im telling you man if i had had the scrip for it i woulda bought it. The site is long since gone since the main guy who ran it died but i thing it merged with another site. still i saw a magnus trailer for the mp magnus and my god it was awesome!!!!

Transtopia merged with Seibertron.I would go there all the time,i hate Seibertrons custom setup,so i don't bother with it anymore.
That UM armor is badass,i need one of those and the Cliffjumper upgrade kit.

I look forward to the 25ths ending for a bit(I'm going to hell for saying that i know).A break could do some good.

[Deckard]

ty it was transtopia. And i am also looking forward to a break. gimme a chance to get some stuff i couldnt before and to make my you tube video of burning movie figures in effigy :>

[Dark 5cythe]

where are you? Here in cali everything is out already. wave 10 , new vehicles,dvd packs, reissue figures.

[spacemonkeymafia]

it is an f'ing sweet figure that would never have gotten made if Hasbro wasn't responding to the serious collectors...and people over at tfw2005 are bitching about the paint app (or lack there of) on his face... you can't please everybody all the time, and by "everybody" I mean us...



agreed- and let me put this thought into your head... it'll never happen but there was a thread about a similar armor set for the Masterpiece Ultra Magnus. yeah. a Masterpiece UM with full trailer and armor, and the cab folding up into his chest. yeah. imagine how tight that would be...


Man Armor for MP Magnus......Id have to break down and buy that sucka.........

[245am]

Man Armor for MP Magnus......Id have to break down and buy that sucka.........

yeah and it's not like MP Magnus is a cheap figure anyway (nor is the classics I guess, but still)

I think this may be what y'all were talking about:
View topic - FINISHED! MP ULTRA MAGNUS !!! (http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=144&t=31705&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)
ho.ly.shit.

[boba fett]

So today, early this morning I went on a Wal-Mart hunt. As usual I didn't find jack $#!+. I was hoping I'd find at least one of the new vehicles, yeah right. It's already October and retailers still haven't recieved Wave 10. This is just plain ridiculous. I'm sick and tired of finding the same @*%!ing Wave 7 revisions. Now we all know that Wave 10 won't hit pegs 'til they move all these revisions that keep poping up every week. Hasbro definetly is not helping by shipping nothing but revision cases. What pissed me off the most, I checked HTS after my useless hunt. What do I find Wave 10 sold out, WTF!!!
Hasbro has a cash cow on their hands and it seems that they intentionally want the line to fail. Keep sending these revisions that most of us have and they're just gonna clog the pegs. Retailers are gonna see that they are not selling so they'll stop ordering and we are just gonna be $#!+ out of luck and not have Joes, again. I'm not a genius but common sense from Hasbro can save this line and make it more profitable.
This line is being kept afloat through us the 'collectors'. I can understand revisions, giving others a chance to catch up on what was in very low quantities at the beginning of the 25th Ann. line. I can understand re-releasing; Wave 1 Flint, Snake-Eyes w/ Timber. W2 Beach-Head, W3 Firefly, W5 Flash, & Snow Job. And of course all of Wave 6. But this constant releases of Wave 7,8, & 9 is just plain stupid especially in the quantities we're getting. Honestly how many of you are sick of seeing Urban Roadblock, Jet Pack Duke, Wild Bill, TF Flint, Python Officer and Cobra Commander? If I could get a dollar for every time I see these figures I could buy Hasbro. I totally understand revisions but you got to put figures people want on the pegs. We always bitch on how hard it is to army build get the B.A.T.s, Snow Serpents, Eels, Para Vipers etc get those on the pegs. Each character should not be produced in exact quantities, army building characters should be produced at least 20% more than named characters.
I know there is no way to completely make every collector happy, but Hasbro's got THINK before they do something. Honestly, all these revisions we're getting I would have waited until the holidays or even right before the movie gets released. But uncle Hasbro wants to just focus on the movie line only, then so be it. I for one will be taking a break when the movie line comes out. I just pray that the movie does well, for the sake of the movie toy line. Hopefully after the movie line Hasbro puts more effort into the regular line and stop treating us like idiots.
Sorry for the extra long drama but I had to get this off my chest. This pass year I've always back Hasbro thanked them in person for what they have given us but now I'm not as happy as before and I can see why some people thrash Hasbro the way they do. Like I said hopefully things will change...
well I know that everyone is screaming for wave 10 but would you rather have no figs on the shelf at all?

I hate to tell you this but it is actually your (our) fault you see what we are seeing on the shelves is actually what should be out and sought after but since everyone pre-orders, orders online , wants to army build ect, we are ahead of ourselves in the market,
it is not a cash cow by no means, they cannot make new sculpts for each figure and each wave it is just not as profitable as you think, for example:
designers say "hey I want to make an ice cream soldier that comes with a cool huge skystriker!" so he presents his idea and the hasbro moneymen tell him, okay but it is going to cost 45.00 each to produce so in order to make a profit and so you can keep your job hasbro to sell 100,000 pieces at 50.00 ea. and the last vehicle we produce was the hiss tank @10.00 and it sold 25,000 units so in order to justify the run we have to bump it up to 25,000 @ 200.00 ea. so the market just wont support the item, so no, go back and use your old molds until that mold has made a profit of x then when you meet that quota of x you can make a new figure mold. I hope that all made sense!
the same concept works for your army building theory , everytime you buy a b.a.t. you actuually force a bazooka to sit on a shelf, i.e. fills the shelf with figures so when you walk down the isle there is something there.

simply put if you want wal-mart to stuff the shelves with new joes, buy every figure you see, keep the reciept and when the new ones get reordered and shelved take your figs you dont want back

[spacemonkeymafia]

yeah and it's not like MP Magnus is a cheap figure anyway (nor is the classics I guess, but still)

I think this may be what y'all were talking about:
View topic - FINISHED! MP ULTRA MAGNUS !!! (http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=144&t=31705&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)
ho.ly.shit.

Man thats kinda cool right there..........

[Deckard]

problem is reciepts now have an expiratiopn date. I went to go take back some old figures i didnt have a use for that i had bought and the guest service person said the reciept had expired. I was like WHAT?! I know theres like a certain time but i didnt think it was less than a month. This happened at target by the way.

[Deckard]

and im in norcal Scythe. Around sac roseville auburn area.

[Steevy Maximus]

What I don't understand is, Hasbro knows people want to army build. They have army builder sets on HTS for Star Wars. I can buy a Troop Builder 8-Pack of stormtroopers right now on HTS. Why can't they do that for G. I. Joe?
Because those troop builder sets on HTS is just clearing overstock. They aren't "special sets" or anything. Hasbro had a TON of the old Saga Legends Sandtroopers around, so they bundled them (along with Destroyer Droids, Clones, and Luke Skywalker) into these "bonus buys" to help clear stock.
Makes no sense to do "bonus buys" on Joe troopers because they can barely keep them in stock.

There are two things I feel are VASTLY overrated by the fandom in general:
1. the Importance of the collector
2. The importance of the army builder

In regards to 1, yes, a vast majority of collectors DO already have all these figures, but collectors have never proven themselves capable of supporting a mass retail toyline. This fall and these revision cases are the first true test for this line.
Last year, all we had were the meager offering of single figures and the 5 packs. This year, we have singles, comic packs, vehicles, DVD packs, and a slew of store exclusives.
It is real easy for a store to clear out a case or two of figures between collectors, casual colllectors, scalpers, speculators and parents, especially in markets where the singles were the ONLY offering last year. Now, we have a LOT more product, and it is being refreshed a LOT more frequently (which also throws off observations because a high refresh rate is easily interpreted as stock "not moving").
It is now up to casual buyers and parents to prove GI Joe has the legs to stand with the retail big boys like Transformers and Star Wars.

And Army builders? Some of the slowest sellers I've seen have actually been army builders. In my area, you can EASILY get a few Crimson Guards (which have been a rare sight, to be honest), Python Troopers, Vipers, and Hiss Drivers. Early this year, Cobra Troopers were painfully common as well.
Troop builders are a niche within a niche, and as evidenced by the Viper AND Hiss Driver, there are not enough super buyers to warrant the accommodation by Hasbro. For every one collector who will get a dozen plus Crimson Guards are a hundred more happy with just one or two.

[arizona444]

right there with you! they can make abunch of star wars figures that are from comics or in one of the movies for .0000001 of a second. but they won't make a billy or a "real" glenda figure. wtf!!! more figures fans want and more availability of the figures they do put out!!! how many repaints of duke can you make?

[joshdahl]

I just can't get that upset about it.

They make great toys that bring me lot sof happiness. Plus, the hunt is part of the fun.

I mean, the store has milk and eggs EVERY TIME I go there, so I am rarely excited about getting milk and eggs.
If I knew that I could reliably get a new Joe that I needed everytime I walked down the Target aisle....I might get bored.

And if they had everything I wanted all at once, i would just buy everything and go home. And BAM suddenly I am not a collector any more.....because I am done collecting...I have it all until the next wave comes out.

That is exactly why I don't buy cases. And it is why there are big gaps in my collection....but it is also why I get so excited everytime I go to the store....

Even if it is most often just me and Wild Bill staring at eachother.

Josh

[lldjslim]

I think its scalpers, because they buy up everything and then when they can't sell it on e-bay they return it to the stores which in turn, warms the pegs.

[watson349]

the only think hasbro has done wrong is think that collectors troop build wild bill.

[hifipinkie29]

Well, F@#$ing Hasbro is right. I wonder how many collector's Hasbro has turned off of this line because they can't find anything except n E-bay. I myself am an army builder and I have an army of 2 B.A.T.s and 2 Snow Serpents. I bought one of each on E-bay then found one of each at Wal-Mart. I have only seen ONE BAT and ONE Snow Serpent in a store. I believe I have read that many Hisstankers haven't seen any at all...ever. That's RIDICULOUS!!! And now, with the Conquest and Rattler being Target exclusives, I'll never see those either, thanks to the little b@#$% scalpers!!!! So, if I want to build my army of BATS, Snow Serpents, Conquests, and Rattlers then I'll have to do it off of E-bay. Which means I'll be paying about 4 times as much as I would if I could actually find them in the store. Ever since Wave 9 started to hit in June I have not been able to find jack s@#$. No wave 9, now no Conquest or Rattlers, oh yeah my Wal-Mart doesn't carry the vehicles either...go figure. I know all of you guys out there who can just go and find anything and everything at your local stores are probably thinking we're a bunch of whiners, but trust me....being in this postition is VERY frustrating. So, I'm teetering on the edge of calling it quits. It's apparent Hasbro doesn't give a crap about the collectors. If they did I wouldn't have to drive about 150 miles round trip to find anything new...which most of the time I don't find a single thing. Oh and the clear Wraith? That will be just a myth around here. So there's another thing I would have to by off of E-bay. Give a brother a break!!!!

[spacemonkeymafia]

Well, F@#$ing Hasbro is right. I wonder how many collector's Hasbro has turned off of this line because they can't find anything except n E-bay. I myself am an army builder and I have an army of 2 B.A.T.s and 2 Snow Serpents. I bought one of each on E-bay then found one of each at Wal-Mart. I have only seen ONE BAT and ONE Snow Serpent in a store. I believe I have read that many Hisstankers haven't seen any at all...ever. That's RIDICULOUS!!! And now, with the Conquest and Rattler being Target exclusives, I'll never see those either, thanks to the little b@#$% scalpers!!!! So, if I want to build my army of BATS, Snow Serpents, Conquests, and Rattlers then I'll have to do it off of E-bay. Which means I'll be paying about 4 times as much as I would if I could actually find them in the store. Ever since Wave 9 started to hit in June I have not been able to find jack s@#$. No wave 9, now no Conquest or Rattlers, oh yeah my Wal-Mart doesn't carry the vehicles either...go figure. I know all of you guys out there who can just go and find anything and everything at your local stores are probably thinking we're a bunch of whiners, but trust me....being in this postition is VERY frustrating. So, I'm teetering on the edge of calling it quits. It's apparent Hasbro doesn't give a crap about the collectors. If they did I wouldn't have to drive about 150 miles round trip to find anything new...which most of the time I don't find a single thing. Oh and the clear Wraith? That will be just a myth around here. So there's another thing I would have to by off of E-bay. Give a brother a break!!!!


To be honest I used to not see them at all and now I see both those guys........Scifigenre.com has both for a good price........

[Soundwave Viper]

HASBRO RULES !!!!! HASBRO RULES !!!!! HASBRO RULES !!!!!
HASBRO RULES !!!!! HASBRO RULES !!!!! HASBRO RULES !!!!!
HASBRO RULES !!!!! HASBRO RULES !!!!! HASBRO RULES !!!!!
HASBRO RULES !!!!! HASBRO RULES !!!!! HASBRO RULES !!!!!

I Love Hasbro !!!!!

[Agent-GHQ]

Hasbro has a cash cow on their hands and it seems that they intentionally want the line to fail.If that was the case, Hasbro would have ended this 25th line long ago. When the 25th line debut in '07, Hasbro did not intend to put out this many waves until they learned of the demand and popularity.

Wave 13 has already been confirmed long with many vehicles and DVD set. And I bet we will get even more after the movie too!?

[gunslingercbr]

I think its scalpers, because they buy up everything and then when they can't sell it on e-bay they return it to the stores which in turn, warms the pegs.

not this again. do you honestly think there was a widespread, nationwide scalper collective to return all these army builders to stores across the nation all at once? because with the amount of sightings in recent days of the increased amount of army builders on shelves, that is what would have to be happening for your position to be true.
This fall and these revision cases are the first true test for this line.

I agree. for all the people touting that the line was popular and needed more product because collectors can carry a larger produced line, well, now the pegs are overflowing with product like other toylines.

unfortunately, collectors already have most if not all of these figures and they aren't selling as rapidly, so to actually be able to handle such a production quantity like other toylines, collectors need to be complimented by children. if these revision figures don't sell, it won't bode favorably for the theory that collectors alone can carry a large toyline, as opposed to a small produced toyline like the 25th Anniversary figures were.
Well, F@#$ing Hasbro is right. I wonder how many collector's Hasbro has turned off of this line because they can't find anything except n E-bay. I myself am an army builder and I have an army of 2 B.A.T.s and 2 Snow Serpents. I bought one of each on E-bay then found one of each at Wal-Mart. I have only seen ONE BAT and ONE Snow Serpent in a store. I believe I have read that many Hisstankers haven't seen any at all...ever. That's RIDICULOUS!!! And now, with the Conquest and Rattler being Target exclusives, I'll never see those either, thanks to the little b@#$% scalpers!!!! So, if I want to build my army of BATS, Snow Serpents, Conquests, and Rattlers then I'll have to do it off of E-bay. Which means I'll be paying about 4 times as much as I would if I could actually find them in the store. Ever since Wave 9 started to hit in June I have not been able to find jack s@#$. No wave 9, now no Conquest or Rattlers, oh yeah my Wal-Mart doesn't carry the vehicles either...go figure. I know all of you guys out there who can just go and find anything and everything at your local stores are probably thinking we're a bunch of whiners, but trust me....being in this postition is VERY frustrating. So, I'm teetering on the edge of calling it quits. It's apparent Hasbro doesn't give a crap about the collectors. If they did I wouldn't have to drive about 150 miles round trip to find anything new...which most of the time I don't find a single thing. Oh and the clear Wraith? That will be just a myth around here. So there's another thing I would have to by off of E-bay. Give a brother a break!!!!
or perhaps you can't find your army builders because other army builders buy them up. I find it laughable that an army builder would criticize scalpers or assume scalpers to be the problem in finding army builders when the actual collector who army build does the same thing -- wipes out the store of figures so nobody else can find them. I don't condemn scalpers, and I don't condemn army builders, but it is certainly hypocritical for an army builder to criticize a scalper when they commit the same behavior that makes figures hard to find -- buy every one they find. in fact, scalpers are better for the community than army builders because at least they make the figures available again for purchase. army builders, once they have them, you aren't getting them. you can't criticize Hasbro or scalpers when you are equally responsible for the problem.

[COBRACOLLECTOR]

i made a nice monkey Wrench using wild bill and the Dreadnok comic pack i suggest use all do the same lol

If not The Wild Man will never Leave the Pegs hahaha

[lldjslim]

from now on I'm just going to order my joes from Big Bad Toy store and then I don't have to worry about driving and waisting gas.

I think thats the smart thing to do.

Just when is HTS going to start caring cases

[hifipinkie29]

It's not just the army builder figures, though. I'm talking all figures. I saw wave 9 maybe 3 times total. I drive to two major cities, two smaller cities, and a small town. All neighboring my town. Since June, in all of those cities...I saw wave 9 three times. You cannot tell me I just happened to miss them, or that someone bought them all up before I could spot them. This line is hot, but not that hot. I check these places 5 days a week (while I'm at work). Sometimes I make trips on the weekends, too. That doesn't seem slightly odd to you? I'm telling you, between Hasbro putting out a weak amount of product to certain places, and these scalpers it's hard to catch a break. Maybe I'm wrong....maybe there's people out there army building Bazookas and Hawks.

[Deckard]

For anyone to say a scalper HELPS THE COMMNUNITY is the most assanine thing i have ever heard. Scalpers do not help the community i don't care if they resell the figures os others can buy them. They are over charging more than the stores and thats bull. I mean stores already scalp high enough off the figures but for someone to come along and buy them up then charge DOUBLE (and thats being nice) for these things is even more wrong. So to say a scalper helps the community is ludicrous and moronic.

[hifipinkie29]

Yeah, I thought that was pretty stupid, too. Hey!!! There was some jerk off on Ebay trying to sell a variant Wraith for $120.00!!! How is that a help to the community? Maybe a help to HIS community. So, there goes a figure someone could have come across on the peg and bought for $8.00. That would have made someone's day. Instead, some lifeless loser found it and threw it on E-Bay to make a BIG buck. So genius, how does that help the community?

[hifipinkie29]

I guess between all the "Help to the Community" and all the clear Wraith army builders I won't be able to find one for me.

[fogger1138]

So genius, how does that help the community?

Well, he did say scalpers are better for the community than army builders because at least they make the figures available again for purchase and by that logic I tend to agree with him. Stuff that goes into an army builder's collection (of which I am one) doesn't come out again - at least the scalpers resell it.

The ideal, of course, is no scalpers, and they do more harm than good in my opinion. But they are making the figures available, at least.

[Johnnyakiba]

Dude, I saw this thread and I finnally read it and let me tell you that YOU ARE F'ing RIGHT!

Everytime I go into my local Walmart they have that damn revision wave up and even if it's up there is only Wildbill and Roadblock! I wish that they would ship out more of the troop building stuff because I would be buying them like crazy. HASBRO LISTEN TO US PLEASE!

[gunslingercbr]

For anyone to say a scalper HELPS THE COMMNUNITY is the most assanine thing i have ever heard. Scalpers do not help the community i don't care if they resell the figures os others can buy them. They are over charging more than the stores and thats bull. I mean stores already scalp high enough off the figures but for someone to come along and buy them up then charge DOUBLE (and thats being nice) for these things is even more wrong. So to say a scalper helps the community is ludicrous and moronic.

who said help the community? that's why you have to read everything I said and take them in conjunction. what was said was that scalpers are better for the community, i.e. other collectors, than army builders, because at least with scalpers you have the opportunity to still obtain the figures, whereas army builders buy them all and eliminate the possibility for other collectors to get those figures.

if you can somehow argue that it is better for collectors to not have the opportunity to buy figures than it is to have the opportunity to buy figures, I'm waiting to hear it.

[hifipinkie29]

Making figures available again at an insane price? That is ripping off the community. Last I checked, robbing someone is not helping someone.

[fogger1138]

Making figures available again at an insane price? That is ripping off the community. Last I checked, robbing someone is not helping someone.

As he pointed out in his last post, you're not reading everything he said. What you are, you're taking out of context.

[gunslingercbr]

Yeah, I thought that was pretty stupid, too. Hey!!! There was some jerk off on Ebay trying to sell a variant Wraith for $120.00!!! How is that a help to the community? Maybe a help to HIS community. So, there goes a figure someone could have come across on the peg and bought for $8.00. That would have made someone's day. Instead, some lifeless loser found it and threw it on E-Bay to make a BIG buck. So genius, how does that help the community?

that is not what I said. either you are being dishonest and making up a false argument, trying to change what I said and making up an entirely new argument and then dishonestly attributing that to me, or simply do not understand the simple argument I put forth and that is why you are having trouble formulating a counter to it and are dependent upon making up something entirely different than what I said and arguing against that. I'll let you decide why you have done any of those.

[gunslingercbr]

As he pointed out in his last post, you're not reading everything he said. What you are, you're taking out of context.

exactly. in a perfect world, there would be no scalpers, and plenty of figures to satiate the army builders and casual collectors. unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world, and we have to "compete" with other collectors and scalpers for our toys. and when faced with a scalper or army builder getting them, at least with a scalper you have the opportunity to still buy them.

I don't vilify scalpers or army builders, but that doesn't mean I support them either. I'm indifferent to both of them. you buy for whatever reason you want. I'm coming from the collector point of view that simply wants the opportunity to buy the toys I want, and army builders prevent that from happening, while scalpers do not, they simply prevent it from happening at retail.

[hifipinkie29]

Up until now, I've had no problem finding army builing figures. There were ALWAYS plenty more on the shelf after I was done buying what I needed. Not with the BAT or Snow Serpent.
To some collector's not having the opportunity to buy a figure and an idiot trying to mark up the price 1000% is the same. Sure, the guy made the clear Wraith available to me for $120.00, but who the hell wants to or can pay that much. It's the same as not being able to find one in the store. You said scalpers are better for the community than army builders? If you were a true collector wouldn't it feel better to you to know that your fellow collector was able to find the figures he needed rather than some dickless twerp trying to rob your fellow collectors?

[Johnnyakiba]

are we in a recession? maybe that's why we cannot afford them....

[hifipinkie29]

I'm only arguing that between scalpers and army builders, army builders are the lesser of two evils. At least we are fans and love and enjoy the G.I.Joe universe and mythos. I just think it would benefit Hasbro to up production so we ALL( not including scalpers) can find and buy what we want. I keep hearing that Hasbro is going to do so, but I haven't seen any evidence yet.

[hifipinkie29]

I wouldn't pay $120.00 for a modern single figure out of principle.

[Valo487]

Also, an army builder=sales for the line, whereas a scalper buys only the rare and then resells it, and keeps a collector from being able to buy the same one. The scalper or collector, whoever gets there first makes one purchase, the scalper won't buy it if he can't sell it and the collector won't buy another one down the road, so whoever gets there first that's one sale. Army builders have been giving a lot of money to this line by allowing them to make large profits off molds because people will buy several of those same figures.

Don't bash army builders, they are probably giving more money to the line than anyone and allow for Hasbro to reuse molds which keep costs down. I empathize if you can't get what you want, but don't say that a fellow collector is worse for the line than a fat guy who scrambles down to the store and buys up everything just to sell to someone with way too much money to spare before someone who actually would appreciate them can even see them. And with the length of time between restocks we see on this line sometimes, that's a long time for the real fans to wait while the scalpers count their money.

[Deckard]

who said help the community? that's why you have to read everything I said and take them in conjunction. what was said was that scalpers are better for the community, i.e. other collectors, than army builders, because at least with scalpers you have the opportunity to still obtain the figures, whereas army builders buy them all and eliminate the possibility for other collectors to get those figures.

if you can somehow argue that it is better for collectors to not have the opportunity to buy figures than it is to have the opportunity to buy figures, I'm waiting to hear it.


I just can't see how paying wellover what a store already charges is helping. I personally would never pay more than what a store charges and that includes variants. If people want to buy from scalpers then thats on them but doing that will only cause scalpers to stick around longer.

As for army building I army build (well i used to until these prices went nuts) I define army as having MAYBE 6-10 of a troop figure. And a solution to army building would be something like the red ninja packs (if they were done like the single card version same with the CG packs) the cg packs and the green shirt packs. Now the biggest problem with the red ninja and cg packs is they are different from their single card counter parts. I personally don't like the red ninja packs because of that. well that and the snake eyes that comes with it. Same with the green shirts. While night watch i did not care for they got it right same with the cg packs albeit the silver faces are dumb. so lets make some bat packs, some normal cg packs, some normal snow serpent packs etc. and make them available to the general public not online or store exclusives. That would be a great step in elminating the army builder problem.

[Steevy Maximus]

If you were a true collector wouldn't it feel better to you to know that your fellow collector was able to find the figures he needed rather than some dickless twerp trying to rob your fellow collectors?
A "true collector" would have likely just ordered the damn things online and would have gotten most of them at this point.

[Sergeant Slaughter]

I'm a bit miffed at some of the case revisions. There needed to be 2X Bats in every one. I've seen ONE BAT in the wild. It's inexcusable. I'm glad they're letting new people hop on board and pick up some of the older figures. But they've made the BAT figure far too hard to obtain. Hopefully they'll flood him soon enough.

[gunslingercbr]

I just can't see how paying wellover what a store already charges is helping. I personally would never pay more than what a store charges and that includes variants. If people want to buy from scalpers then thats on them but doing that will only cause scalpers to stick around longer.

As for army building I army build (well i used to until these prices went nuts) I define army as having MAYBE 6-10 of a troop figure. And a solution to army building would be something like the red ninja packs (if they were done like the single card version same with the CG packs) the cg packs and the green shirt packs. Now the biggest problem with the red ninja and cg packs is they are different from their single card counter parts. I personally don't like the red ninja packs because of that. well that and the snake eyes that comes with it. Same with the green shirts. While night watch i did not care for they got it right same with the cg packs albeit the silver faces are dumb. so lets make some bat packs, some normal cg packs, some normal snow serpent packs etc. and make them available to the general public not online or store exclusives. That would be a great step in eliminating the army builder problem.
again, you're talking about helping. I never said that, I said theoretically they are the better of the two for collectors who want to buy figures. this is a very basic position that reduces the dynamics of both scalper and army builders to one basic fundamental factor: who prevents collectors from finding figures absolutely (army builders), and who provides collectors the option of purchasing figures (scalpers).

neither one is good for other collectors who are looking for a figure but get to the store after either one, but the scalper is better because he at least provides the collector the option to buy it. it's like saying, which is better, eating fresh, warm soft dog shit or old, petrified dried out dog shit? neither are good, but I would have to assume that the dry would be better if forced to make an evaluation between the two.

[Valo487]

If that's the way you're going to look at it everybody is the problem, because anyone who buys it before you keeps you from getting them.

They're called ARMY BUILDERS for a reason, I don't think collectors need to apologize for using them the way they were intended.

[Deckard]

i have no idea what eating dog turd has to do with scalpers. And i don't see what they do as anythign good, regardless of whether or not they offer collector a chance to get a figure. They're way over charging and as if the stores weren't charging enough. The army building problem is already an easy fix if hasbro would only do it properly. I detest scalpers and would never buy anything from them...I'll trade out to fellow tankers or take my chances in stores. Scalpers are a blight on the collecting community and anyone who buys from them is only encouraging them. You wanna stop scalpers...don't buy from them.

[gunslingercbr]

i have no idea what eating dog turd has to do with scalpers. And i don't see what they do as anythign good, regardless of whether or not they offer collector a chance to get a figure. They're way over charging and as if the stores weren't charging enough. The army building problem is already an easy fix if hasbro would only do it properly. I detest scalpers and would never buy anything from them...I'll trade out to fellow tankers or take my chances in stores. Scalpers are a blight on the collecting community and anyone who buys from them is only encouraging them. You wanna stop scalpers...don't buy from them.

it's called an analogy. and you are still not addressing what I am talking about. nobody has said anything about it being good, just that it is the better of the two options. see, how that harkens back to the analogy of the lesser of two evils. I don't mind debating this with you, but you are going to have to address what I stated, not what you want what my position to be.

[Deckard]

Okay i see that they resell it back...but they do so at the expense of the regular collector. I don't think your view on what they do should be changed nor would i expect it to anymore than mine. Perhaps to some they provide a service but to me, having had to deal with scalpers before....I know that i will never again buy from a scalper. And if that means i have to wait or never get the items then so be it.

We as collectors wouldn't have to pay over over inflated prices from these people if they weren't here in the first place. Wishing them to go away is one thing but as long as there are things to be made a profit on they will be around. All any decent minded copllector can do is to not patronize their services.

[gunslingercbr]

Okay i see that they resell it back...but they do so at the expense of the regular collector. I don't think your view on what they do should be changed nor would i expect it to anymore than mine. Perhaps to some they provide a service but to me, having had to deal with scalpers before....I know that i will never again buy from a scalper. And if that means i have to wait or never get the items then so be it.

We as collectors wouldn't have to pay over over inflated prices from these people if they weren't here in the first place. Wishing them to go away is one thing but as long as there are things to be made a profit on they will be around. All any decent minded copllector can do is to not patronize their services.
I'm just saying that from the basic principle of making figures available, a scalper is better for a collector who wants to buy them than a army builder who won't sell them.

[Valo487]

Ok, so because a COLLECTOR buys something and doesn't resell it at an inflated price, they are worse off for everyone else? You caught me. I buy things and keep them. I am teh deth of the line!!!!1!!!

That makes no sense. Are you telling me if you stumble onto the goldmine of new stuff you'd not buy things you want so someone else has a chance? I can understand leaving some behind for other collectors, but if you find it first I see no reason why you can't take advantage of a lucky break and get what you want. I think the root of the problem is that scalpers have people who will actually pay their ridiculous prices, and that because Hasbro has had problems getting enough of the figures people want into stores so there aren't enough for everybody. So I understand your problem, but don't point fingers at other collectors, we're not the evil people you seem to think who horde the stuff we buy with our own money, as despicable as that may be. (Sarcasm)

[fogger1138]

Ok, so because a COLLECTOR buys something and doesn't resell it at an inflated price, they are worse off for everyone else? You caught me. I buy things and keep them. I am teh deth of the line!!!!1!!!

That makes no sense. Are you telling me if you stumble onto the goldmine of new stuff you'd not buy things you want so someone else has a chance? I can understand leaving some behind for other collectors, but if you find it first I see no reason why you can't take advantage of a lucky break and get what you want. I think the root of the problem is that scalpers have people who will actually pay their ridiculous prices, and that because Hasbro has had problems getting enough of the figures people want into stores so there aren't enough for everybody. So I understand your problem, but don't point fingers at other collectors, we're not the evil people you seem to think who horde the stuff we buy with our own money, as despicable as that may be. (Sarcasm)

Niec straw man argument here.

[Viper6]

i scored a desert awe striker from my walmart today a moc snake n timber, crimson guard,and then oh yes, the target rattler at target only due to a phone call to target. good day on cobra island...now i need a moc stormy, just the selective moc bug so im getting a few..a few!

[Agent-GHQ]

I'm only arguing that between scalpers and army builders, army builders are the lesser of two evils.I'm disturbed by this remark on army builders!
I just think it would benefit Hasbro to up production so we ALL(not including scalpers) can find and buy what we want.Good thing we have army builders too that contnues to impress Hasbro, thus enforced greater productions.
I keep hearing that Hasbro is going to do so, but I haven't seen any evidence yet.Depending where you live too, we are already seeing the up in productions. I think its still poorly distributed. But, I have a friend that works at Wally in toys department and his GM is more into the food section than plastic green men.

[Agent-GHQ]

I'm just saying that from the basic principle of making figures available, a scalper is better for a collector who wants to buy them than a army builder who won't sell them.This a a good point! But its not the army builders fault either for not selling what they love.

[Derek2783]

All of you!!!! :D

[dawg99]

you never know they could end up in canada sooner because were i live pegs always empty lots of room for wave 10

[Derek2783]

Ive said this before, and I'll say it again.

Every sale is good for the line. It might not be the best for your own pocketbook, or fit within the timeline you feel like you deserve to have the figures in, but scalpers AND army builders help enable the line you love.

So quit bitching, and get out there and hunt. If you can't learn to hunt smarter, and won't hunt harder, you don't have the right to complain.

It's as simple as that.

[Derek2783]

If you were a true collector wouldn't it feel better to you to know that your fellow collector was able to find the figures he needed rather than some dickless twerp trying to rob your fellow collectors?

Don't take this personally, higipinkie29, alot of other people feel the same way as you... but no scalper has ever "robbed" a collector. Every transaction was agreed upon by both parties as a fair price for the item. We collectors are buying the items, so we can't blame "scalpers" for being the problem. We perpetuate the secondary market for these items, the scalpers are simply inserting themselves in the market, just like every other smart middleman out there. Figure out what people want, and find a way to get it to them. Scalpers provide a service - they hunt the figures down, the put them on the secondary market, and guess what? We buy them.

"Well I don't buy from them!". True. And not every scalper is a "dickless twerp". We're speaking in generalizations, right? :D

[gunslingercbr]

Ok, so because a COLLECTOR buys something and doesn't resell it at an inflated price, they are worse off for everyone else? You caught me. I buy things and keep them. I am teh deth of the line!!!!1!!!

That makes no sense. Are you telling me if you stumble onto the goldmine of new stuff you'd not buy things you want so someone else has a chance? I can understand leaving some behind for other collectors, but if you find it first I see no reason why you can't take advantage of a lucky break and get what you want. I think the root of the problem is that scalpers have people who will actually pay their ridiculous prices, and that because Hasbro has had problems getting enough of the figures people want into stores so there aren't enough for everybody. So I understand your problem, but don't point fingers at other collectors, we're not the evil people you seem to think who horde the stuff we buy with our own money, as despicable as that may be. (Sarcasm)
Niec straw man argument here.
thank you.

but to address the ridiculous argument, the answer is no, nobody expects you to do anything. you do as you please. collector, army builder, scalper, whoever. but by your own logic, why would the scalper leave it there? that's the point. you can't look down on the scalper and not anyone else who essentially does the same thing -- prevent you from buying the toys at retail. that's the point. the entire scalper hate is ridiculous when collectors, hoarders, army builders, whoever's behavior puts collectors in the same situation.
This a a good point! But its not the army builders fault either for not selling what they love.
nobody is blaming army builders. good for army builders, I'm glad they find what they are looking for, and I don't expect them to sell what they find. I'm okay with anybody finding what they are looking for, even scalpers. just because I don't like or agree with what they are doing doesn't mean I have to vilify them. I'm not criticizing army builders for army building, that's their choice. my point is about comparing the repercussions of their actions and I deem it silly to vilify scalpers and not army builders when their effect on the market place is the same -- less figures on shelves for other collectors to buy. some people aren't bothered by someone who collects having 100 Bats even if someone else can't find 1, others aren't bothered by scalpers making an extra $10 on a figure so that collector can have his 1 Bat, and others aren't bothered by either.

[Agent-GHQ]

Scalpers provide a service - they hunt the figures down, the put them on the secondary marketA disturbing and an expensive service!
and guess what? We buy them.By "We" I'm assuming this applies to those individuals that is not available to them in retails or otherwise.

[RuckusJr]

If only the army builders built armies of Jetpack Duke, Wild Bill, and Torpedo...

[spacemonkeymafia]

If only the army builders built armies of Jetpack Duke, Wild Bill, and Torpedo...

Hey you said you wouldnt tell on me and my master Army........

[Agent-GHQ]

I'm okay with anybody finding what they are looking for, even scalpers. I'm disturbed by the latter one!
my point is about comparing the repercussions of their actions and I deem it silly to vilify scalpers and not army builders when their effect on the market place is the same -- less figures on shelves for other collectors to buy.Yeah, I gotcha from your prior post.

[Agent-GHQ]

If only the army builders built armies of Jetpack Duke, Wild Bill, and Torpedo...And they don't make good army builders either.

[Deckard]

hasbro should just repack the regular versions of certain figures like red ninjas, bats, greenshirts, cg's(i'd love 5 packs of fred cgs's personally), vipers, eels etc. Single card specific charcaters like mutt n junkyard, wraith cc, baroness etc and 5 pack the regular troops. then army bulding problem solved and regular collectors can get their single card figures.

[Steinberg]

The reason for so much emotional angst is COMPULSIVE HUNTING. We wanted a world where we could just stroll into any store and buy what ever we wanted. We now have that for the most part. You can find most figures from half the waves due to revisions, any DVD pack or comic pack, any wave 1 vehicle, we're flooded with jets after only a month! There is so much screaming about wave ten. Does anyone really believe we won't be choking on wave 10 and the 2/3 vehicles in a month; regardless of the army builders or the mythical "scalpers" So sit back and relax. If you hit ten stores a day come home with nothing and read everyone showing off thier hauls on the tank you will drive yourself nuts.

[Agent-GHQ]

hasbro should just repack the regular versions of certain figures like red ninjas, bats, greenshirts, cg's(i'd love 5 packs of fred cgs's personally), vipers, eels etc.That may not be solved either!? Whatever 5 packs/ 7 packs is out already may still be not enough.

[BILL]

What he's saying is that hasboro keeps sending these stores more and more of these revision cases of figures that everyone has that its at the point that the stores are not ordering anymore and us collectors will never see the next wave because the stores are not ordering what they cant sell. I went to target and they said no one buys this stuff so they dont care , and tru says that the 3 packs are discoutinued and they wont be getting any. While i know that that last one is wrong it shows that the store think g.i.joe is a joke. I have always loved the joes and always will but right now hasboro is making the joes a bunch of losers.

it's not hasbro's fault. Stores will not re-stock until their stock levels are low. Does it suck? Sure it does. But until those shelves start emptying out, it's going to be hard to find newer stuff.

Remember the days when we couldn't find anything? Now we find wave 7 - 9 in piles. Someone needs to start buying those wild bills, dangit!

[Acrizer]

I'm just saying that from the basic principle of making figures available, a scalper is better for a collector who wants to buy them than a army builder who won't sell them.

That's really not true. A collector stops when he has what he's after - be it 5 or 10 or whatever. Then the collector/army builder stops. Afterwards, additional items are there for the next luck of the draw.

A scalper keeps on buying and buying and making sure that the people hunting for these things has little choice but to pay an inflated price, risk not getting it, or it becoming "vintage" enough that the higher price is the norm. The scalper insures there are none on the pegs until there are no buyers left. I'll repeat that, the scalper only stops when there is no more demand and the inflated price can not be won. Then he "returns" them. This then adds to the filling of the pegs and causes stores to scale back ordering... which, again, hurts the collector.

While I agree that no scalper robs anyone, they are definitely worse for the hobby and the collector than the average army builder type. They also limit the collector's buying power who would buy more product and help perpetuate the line. Keep in mind the scalper's purchases eventually hit a breaking point where the items are returned OR the same number of items/purchases gets into the hands of the collector (which means there is either zero gain or a loss). All those marked up prices aren't getting into the hands of stores or manufacturers, all that money power isn't helping the line and it's not all paying back into the cycle.

An army builder's money is 100% going into the cycle and supporting the hobby and product line with the exception of any markup paid to scalpers.

[Agent-GHQ]

The reason for so much emotional angst is COMPULSIVE HUNTING. We wanted a world where we could just stroll into any store and buy what ever we wanted.Which is why I strongly feel its competition. No effort, no gain maybe?
Does anyone really believe we won't be choking on wave 10 and the 2/3 vehicles in a month; regardless of the army builders or the mythical "scalpers" So sit back and relax.Its gets even bigger in Dec!!

[Agent-GHQ]

An army builder's money is 100% going into the cycle and supporting the hobby and product line with the exception of any markup paid to scalpers.And you don't think scalpers and other collectors/buyers money is 100% going into the cycle and supporting the hobby and product line either?

[Steinberg]

The scalper insures there are none on the pegs until there are no buyers left. I'll repeat that, the scalper only stops when there is no more demand and the inflated price can not be won. Then he "returns" them.

You can clearly see this is not happening with BAT's and snow serpents. check on ebay right now and you will see them routinely going for retail or less, not counting shipping. So the secondary market for these has long since collapsed. Any true "scalper" wouldn't waste his time on these and yet they are still among the most difficult to find in the wild.

[Steinberg]

And you don't think scalpers and other collectors/buyers money is 100% going into the cycle and supporting the hobby and product line either?

Only if the scalper reinvests %100 of profit into new merchandise. which is unlikely.

[fogger1138]

Thanks jackass. I'm not going to apologize for buying the things I love, especially on a board dedicated to that subject, and if you're trying to say that all collectors, casual buyers what have you should bend over and grab their ankles to make it up to him not being able to buy exactly what he's looking for in one trip when the rest of us have to hunt for them, then you can go screw yourself. But the bright spot is, you can go screw yourself anyway. Looks like your lucky day.

And a nice ad hominem attack to go with yet another straw man argument.

No one's asking you to apologize for buying what you love, and it's ridiculous for you to state otherwise. I was merely addressing the fact that you'd ignored his argument, produced a different argument, claimed it was his, and then poked holes in it. That's the definition of a straw man argument - and that's exactly what you did (twice now).

[Agent-GHQ]

Any true "scalper" wouldn't waste his time on these and yet they are still among the most difficult to find in the wilFrom a case of 8 pcs, i'd say its difficult from the get-go. Maybe different if Hasbro pack them 4 each per case!??

[Agent-GHQ]

Only if the scalper reinvests %100 of profit into new merchandise. which is unlikely.Yeah, I got your humor here too.

[Agent-GHQ]

That's the definition of a straw man argument - and that's exactly what you did (twice now).I'm sure he knew exactly what you meant. Which is why he dropped the name card on you. Just saying!

[Knighthart]

I have collected action figures for over 15 years. I have yet to understand the distribution of the new 25th G.I. Joe stuff. I watch internet retailers and do store runs. All of a sudden we get a surge of Wave 7 revisions. Entertainment Earth hasn't shown a basic wave of figures as "in-stock" since Wave 1. Now we have Wave 7 R 'whatever' "in-stock" at EE.

Army Builders do hurt the collector. I find myself caught in between. I understand both sides. I remember when the Crimson Guards first came out. A Target got in a lest 3 cases. I bought 6 CGs that day. I felt a bit bad but I wanted the army. Why can't Hasbro put COBRA ARMY builder cases out. Back in the 70s and 80s Kenner Star Wars figures shipped in solid cases-ie 12 Stormtroopers, 12 Luke Skywalkers... Does Hasbro not understand the plight of the collector here?

As for HTS, I think its funny that they restrict their quantities at this site. I have never seen a current wave stay in-stock more than a couple hours. This is Hasbro's own site, you'd think they could fill a warehouse full of the things. Cut out the middle man and they only make more cash! I swear Hasbro is run by the same corporate execs that caused the need for a 700Billion Dollar bailout....

[Agent-GHQ]

As for HTS, I think its funny that they restrict their quantities at this site. I have never seen a current wave stay in-stock more than a couple hours. This is Hasbro's own site, you'd think they could fill a warehouse full of the things. Cut out the middle man and they only make more cash! I swear Hasbro is run by the same corporate execs that caused the need for a 700Billion Dollar bailout....If I was in charge of Hasbro, I would have taken the cash-cow to the firm's advantage. Then again, I don't believe Hasbro is out of raw materials to produce more than they have lready claimed either.

[lldjslim]

Scalpers know that collectors just love army builders expecially BATS so they are going to charge double digit prices for them. So before you decide to give into a scalpers price you need a plan.

I got lucky and found a total 9 BATs at the wally worlds and Targets around my area. How did I do it? Well I said to myself if you want to beat the scalpers you have to think like a scalper. The trick is you gotta beat them at there own game.

Scalpers never sleep they are like vampires always up and ready to prey on the next store near you.

So what do you do? Wal-mart only restocks its shelves at night. They put out freight around 10:30pm - 11:30pm. So I say, try going into wal-mart around that time and search there pallets for GI Joe cases once you spot one open it up and claim your prize. Targets and Toys r us hit these stores when they first open up. If your looking for Target exclusives, have the DPCI number w/ you to make finding it easier.

Usually, a scalper won't buy up all the Toys r us exclusives,Target exclusives, DVD battle packs, and vehicles, because they are too expensive, even for the scalper, so you should have no problem finding them if your patient and don't panic.

But ever sense those darn revision cases I have been cold on finding BATS because there not included in the revision waves.

We all love army builders and Hasbro knows it.

What Hasbro needs to do is release a army building wave w/ nothing but BATS and cobra troopers. Then that way everybody can get a chance of building up there armys and everyone will be happy.

Because it sucks just to go on e-bay and pay a scalper $19.99 for 1 BAT plus $9.99 shipping. Thats $30.00 for one figure. What is this world coming too.

[Agent-GHQ]

Scalpers never sleep they are like vampires always up and ready to prey on the next store near you.They do sleep, just during the day.

So what do you do? Wal-mart only restocks its shelves at night. They put out freight around 10:30pm - 11:30pm. So I say, try going into wal-mart around that time and search there pallets for GI Joe cases once you spot one open it up and claim your prize. Targets and Toys r us hit these stores when they first open up. If your looking for Target exclusives, have the DPCI number w/ you to make finding it easier. Absolutely!
What Hasbro needs to do is release a army building wave w/ nothing but BATS and cobra troopers. Then that way everybody can get a chance of building up there armys and everyone will be happy.I hope this is true too.
Because it sucks just to go on e-bay and pay a scalper $19.99 for 1 BAT plus $9.99 shipping. Thats $30.00 for one figure. What is this world coming too.I'd rather flush it down the toilet than to buy from a scalpers!

[Valo487]

And a nice ad hominem attack to go with yet another straw man argument.

No one's asking you to apologize for buying what you love, and it's ridiculous for you to state otherwise. I was merely addressing the fact that you'd ignored his argument, produced a different argument, claimed it was his, and then poked holes in it. That's the definition of a straw man argument - and that's exactly what you did (twice now).
Look, for the last time, I simply stated my opinion which if you would actually read it, you'd see that my whole point is that he blames scalpers and collectors for not being able to find them. Well no sh!t. I'm sorry the world isn't designed to give him what he wants every time he goes looking for it, but it's the same for everybody else. I have five Snow Serpents that I had to hunt for, instant gratification seldom happens with anything and that's especially true with this line. If he doesn't want to have to LOOK for them then he should go online or get out of the hobby, because he's no better than the rest of us and we have to hunt for them, and we do because we love them and it's worth it to us.

I fail to see how you are looking at this. I agree some collectors should show restraint and not buy every army builder they see every time they find them, but I can't control what they do, only what I do, and when I find something new I buy what I was looking for, but I leave as much as I can for other people out of sympathy. If I find it again, I pick it up again because other people have had time to find it and it's still there.

Why do you guys seem to think you're being reasonable when you blame collectors for the difficulty of finding the line and not Hasbro's distribution issues or scalpers? That's like a person in an impoverished country blaming their neighbors for the lack of food and not the people who make the food available. If you guys think someone owes you an apology, you're going to be waiting a while.

[fogger1138]

Look, for the last time, I simply stated my opinion which if you would actually read it, you'd see that my whole point is that he blames scalpers and collectors for not being able to find them. Well no sh!t. I'm sorry the world isn't designed to give him what he wants every time he goes looking for it, but it's the same for everybody else. I have five Snow Serpents that I had to hunt for, instant gratification seldom happens with anything and that's especially true with this line. If he doesn't want to have to LOOK for them then he should go online or get out of the hobby, because he's no better than the rest of us and we have to hunt for them, and we do because we love them and it's worth it to us.


The only commentary I made on your opinion was that you were reacting to an argument that no one else was making. That's it - end of story. I said nothing about the validity of your opinion or whether or not you were entitled to hold it.

I fail to see how you are looking at this.

That much is clear.

I agree some collectors should show restraint and not buy every army builder they see every time they find them, but I can't control what they do, only what I do, and when I find something new I buy what I was looking for, but I leave as much as I can for other people out of sympathy. If I find it again, I pick it up again because other people have had time to find it and it's still there.

I'm reasonably certain that gunslingercbr didn't actually say anything about how collectors should not buy figures - only that, for the community as a whole, the people who buy figures and then sell them again to the community are more beneficial than those who buy them and keep them. Is that not what he said?

Why do you guys seem to think you're being reasonable when you blame collectors for the difficulty of finding the line and not Hasbro's distribution issues or scalpers? That's like a person in an impoverished country blaming their neighbors for the lack of food and not the people who make the food available.

Excellent analogy - I think the point being made (and missed) was that if one meal is being made available for each person, then at least the guy who snatches one and resells it at a profit is allowing the community access to that food; whereas the guy who eats two meals for himself is just shorting the community by another meal. Neither one is good for the community, but one is better (for a certain value of better).

If you guys think someone owes you an apology, you're going to be waiting a while.

Who asked for an apology or indicated that they thought someone owed them one?

[Valo487]

"Excellent analogy - I think the point being made (and missed) was that if one meal is being made available for each person, then at least the guy who snatches one and resells it at a profit is allowing the community access to that food; whereas the guy who eats two meals for himself is just shorting the community by another meal. Neither one is good for the community, but one is better (for a certain value of better)."

Wow, it must hurt being so self righteous. If you really don't see anything morally wrong with your theory of someone taking something he doesn't want to resell to the people who do for a larger sum, then I don't know what else to say to you, but since I wasn't talking to you in the first place before you chimed in, I'm sure you'll have more to add. Please, tell me how I'm wrong, all-knowing one.

[fogger1138]

Wow, it must hurt being so self righteous. If you really don't see anything morally wrong with your theory of someone taking something he doesn't want to resell to the people who do for a larger sum, then I don't know what else to say to you, but since I wasn't talking to you in the first place before you chimed in, I'm sure you'll have more to add. Please, tell me how I'm wrong, all-knowing one.

More ad hominem attacks, for the record. :D This'll be my last post on this topic, since you're obviously determined to make this into something it's not and I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you.

One: it's not, and never has been, my theory. I was merely trying to explain something that someone else (gunslingercbr) wrote that many seemed unable or unwilling to understand. Two: I'd ask that you actually read what I've actually written, but that seems out of completely out of character.

DED(

[Shortfuse]

Most of what I'm seeing these days are Cowboys and Indians (Wild Bill and Spirit). It's like Hasbro is trying to send a subliminal message here!

[Agent-GHQ]

I'm entertained!

[Valo487]

You're done with me? Gee thanks. I have read your posts, I found them banal and unable to hold water. I keep coming back because I would love you to explain how this makes sense to you. The stuff we are talking about aren't gold headed Pimp Daddy Destros, they are available in multiple avenues, both brick and mortar and online, if he can't find them I said before it removes the hassle to simply go online to a store like BBTS or EE, I only took exception to him lumping army-builders of which I am one in with scalpers as a negative force on the community. I responded to HIM not you because I felt his point was lacking and I was less than thrilled with his point. That's it. Then you reared your elitist head and here we are. I'm thrilled that you claim to be done with me, as I don't enjoy having this discussion with you, I simply was trying to state another point of view I felt no one was making. You don't like it fine, but don't insult my intelligence by implying I can't understand what you're saying. I understand it, I just think it is asinine, which suits you. And now I'm done. If you come back with more insulting posts I'll be back, but please, for enjoyment of the board's sake, let's both let it go.

[Agent-GHQ]

Popcorn anyone?

[Deckard]

beer please agent...and make it a Tsing Tao. :> lol

[Agent-GHQ]

Screw that dude! I want a Long Islang Iced-T. lol