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View Full Version : Hasbro doesn't know how to get the case mixes right!


brock Samson
01-10-2012, 02:49 AM
So, I see all the threads about people complaining about shitty distribution and peg warmers. The way I see it, the problem is the case breakouts that Hasbro is delivering. The management deciding the makeup has historically made pretty bad predictions on what they anticipate demand to be for figures. If the mix was better, they'd have more consistent sales across stores and distribution would fix itself. Because they have peg warmers (which can be anticipated a majority of the time), stock is stagnating with no replenishment. Also, I think retailers like target are afraid to order more items that will not move. Sad when they've devoted four pegs to joe figures.

Hasbro execs thought the Renegades line would be desirable because of the terrible cartoon and favored them versus the better designed 30th figures. Now, all you see is renegades warming the pegs. Even the renegades cobra trooper, a figure Renegades fans raved about, has been easy to find. This just proves the show was a failure and figures linked to the show follow suit.

The odd thing about wave 3 is storm shadow was in the show, the figure has something both 30th and the few renegades fans like and was packed only one per case. Then he's not even included in the following wave 4 but they give us an extra cobra trooper that was packed two per case in the previous wave!

If you look at the cases and repeats, they often give us the same figure three waves in a row when that figure came 2 to a case in the first appearance. We keep getting hazard vipers, cobra vipers, cobra troopers, iron grenadiers and steel brigades. Though we've had pleasant surprises like the new body for the steel brigade figures, we've been inundated with these figures for months now in stores. Why wave 4 didn't include two of each new figure boggles the mind.

I've included my clearance find below. These figures have been sitting out a week at $5! Mostly comprised of renegades with a few hazard vipers and cobra troopers. Most of the cheddar was scraped out already by the time I got there but these are the remnants of waves 2, 3 and 4.

I know Hasbro employees view these boards on occasion. I can only hope they do some market research and check the barometer for figures on fan sites before deciding on case breakdowns. If they simply posted the images from toy fair and the joecon with blind voting, they could figure out which figures will have the highest demand and produce accordingly.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-h9-ZQUPn9b0/TwcwTCRU99I/AAAAAAAAAgM/3XK2_ceOShU/s800/IMAG0069.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FvhAvCRejfg/TwcwUjddBwI/AAAAAAAAAgU/Yy6zd-rVpPk/s800/IMAG0070.jpg[/QUOTE]

Scoop
01-10-2012, 03:39 AM
I couldn't agree more with you, but it's not only Joes. It's all of their figures. The worst culprits are their movie lines. Many of the later waves end up getting shipped out to the discount stores because the brick & mortar stores no longer want to order any. Hasbro then claims that those waves are "cancelled" but the only thing that was really cancelled were their orders for the figures. We know better though when we see them at places like Marshalls, Ross, and TJ Maxx. I even had to find the next to final wave of the Iron Man 2 figures at Burlington Coat Factory of all places. (I'm still missing the unmasked War Machine figure though.)

I have still yet to find any figures from waves 3 & 4 of the 30th line at any of the brick & mortar stores. I did see Law & Order and Ripcord once at a Stop & Shop supermarket but at $9.99 I left them there thinking the stores would get them in soon enough for the holidays. Well that was weeks ago and the holidays have come and gone, but the stores never did get any stock.

It's refreshing to see your Walmart with that kind of stock, especially at clearance price. I think I have alll of the figures at the front of those pegs, except for Scarlet that is. If I was there I would have dove on in to look for others that I need... LOL!

Crimson Gord
01-10-2012, 03:49 AM
i haven't seen that many joes at retail since i was a little tyke! that aside, you are right on point man, i can't add anything to it, except the fact that stuff seems to go on clearance in the states super fast.

Magick
01-10-2012, 03:54 AM
Dude.. I would be buying up so many of those figures for my collection and for fodder. Wish mine would have pegs like that. All I get are one row of three pegs and all that is on there is 3 Ren. SE at full retail. LOL

Now on to a serious note.

Hasbro has listened.. look how many times people complained about getting the same 4 figures in every wave. I.E.. Duke, SE, SS and Cobra Commander. Everyone kept asking for army builders to be packed 2 per so that there would be a less likely hood of there being peg warmers.. Now.. You see a lot of the army builders left on pegs, yes a few Ren. Figures as well (Mainly CC and SE) So they short pack SS.. which ended up screwing people out of getting one since they are not in wave 4 cases. I will say that it won't be the last of SS thanks to most Wal Mart stores stocking revision cases.. We still have some time before the movie figures hit. I could be wrong, but I think Hasbro will read how many collectors missed out on him and decide to sneak him in a case assortment towards the end.

Jinx723
01-10-2012, 03:56 AM
I agree with you, Hasbro can't do a case assortment to save their company. First of all Renegade figures shouldn't have been released with the 30th lineup. Honestly, I don't think the Renegade figures should have been released at all this late in the game. The series got canned(not falling for the hiatus crap), and they have no plans of releasing it on video.

Steel Brigade, Cobra Trooper, Cobra Viper, Iron Grenadier were carry overs from the POC lineup and did not need to be released in every single wave. That leaves us with nine figures left; Stalker, Hazard Viper, Techno Viper, Storm Shadow, Airtight, Law & Order, Lifeline, Sci-Fi and Zombie Viper. These could have been spreaded out into two more Waves and 2-3 of each per case. They would have sold just fine and we wouldn't be flooded with pegs of Renegade figures most of us don't want.

The problem with Hasbro is that 2nd Waves tend to hit the Holiday season and they always over produce 2nd waves and do a f***ing revision case of stuff that's already on the pegs. I will never understand Hasbro's logic. PAY ATTENTION HASBRO, new lines (be it 25th/ME, ROC, POC, 30th) are always released mid summer and you have four waves planned. That gives you 3-4 months before November to release all four waves. Then when November comes around when the Holiday Rush hits, then you can do revision cases. What is so hard about that, Hasbro? Release everything you plan to release and then do your f***ing revision cases and guess what THE $#!+ WILL SELL and no clogging the pegs. Collectors that missed stuff earlier, get a chance at them again. Also parents and grandparents would be buying stuff too. It's a win-win for everybody. Collectors get everything they want, stores need more product and you get more orders.

Brick & Mortars lost faith in the Joe Brand and it's Hasbro's own fault. I guarantee after Retaliation stores will avoid the Joe brand like a plague all over again. Why? because Hasbro can't distribute their product equally. Stores are like crack-addicts when it comes to toys attached to a movie. "Gimme, gimme, gimme" They will order the hell of the stuff but don't send them just the first two waves, mix the shit up. Release all the product you have then do revisions during Christmas time. Hasbro, you're only shooting yourselves in the foot.

Flint-wo2
01-10-2012, 04:10 AM
Least you guys have peg warmers. :(

SidDarth
01-10-2012, 04:12 AM
The last two waves of POC is a more ideal way to distribute figures. 4 new figures with 3 of each per case.

One of Hasbro's carbon copy excuses is about core figures always need to be represented. I guess Storm Shadow is not a core character.

It's a problem that covers most of their action figure lines. Captain America may have been the one line to have all its figures hit retail in good quantities.

spiderpumpkin
01-10-2012, 04:20 AM
I could scour my area and not come up with nearly as much as in that one picture.

Colder Soldier
01-10-2012, 06:29 AM
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-h9-ZQUPn9b0/TwcwTCRU99I/AAAAAAAAAgM/3XK2_ceOShU/s800/IMAG0069.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FvhAvCRejfg/TwcwUjddBwI/AAAAAAAAAgU/Yy6zd-rVpPk/s800/IMAG0070.jpgWTF ever!!!

Steelgrave
01-10-2012, 06:34 AM
We already know Hasbro totally fucked up on the last 2 cases. You don't pack brand new figures 1 per case. You have to be the most retarded idiot to pack a new figure 1 per case.

Hasbro totally screwed us on Storm Shadow, Sci-Fi, Law & Order, Lifeline & Airtight. They should put out a revision case with only these 5 figures in it.

Steelgrave
01-10-2012, 06:37 AM
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-h9-ZQUPn9b0/TwcwTCRU99I/AAAAAAAAAgM/3XK2_ceOShU/s800/IMAG0069.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FvhAvCRejfg/TwcwUjddBwI/AAAAAAAAAgU/Yy6zd-rVpPk/s800/IMAG0070.jpg


The big question is why are the Cobra Troopers peg warming? What happened to the army builders/hoarders?

Jacklefttown
01-10-2012, 06:47 AM
WOW! I wish I could buy all those CObra troopers for a mere 5 bucks a pop! Instant army build!!

ChaplainAsst
01-10-2012, 07:15 AM
What is strange is that even HTS skipped over Ren. SS. Recently, its more than just poor decision on the make up of cases; it is also production decisions. During PoC, there weren't many revision waves, and they didn't include the most popular figures that people were looking for in multiples (money bags Destro, Rock viper, Low Light, etc). They promised they learned from the movie about pricing the figures, but the price went up a dollar in the middle of PoC. Then they missed the point with army builders by putting them in every wave for like 3 or 4 waves. We love army builders but we also like a variety of army builders! Stick them in a revision waves ... not every wave!

Renegades SS is the first figure a lot of folks have missed, but it is only a symptom of the larger problem of distribution Hasbro is having in general with the Joe line.

MonkeyBoyZ
01-10-2012, 07:19 AM
Yeah I would be walking out with at least 10 blue shirts without even blinking. I am still in like with them enough to drop them on my bed and roll around. For real.

MrClean
01-10-2012, 07:32 AM
For a few years now, fans have been screaming "no more Snake Eyes, Storm Shadows or Dukes! give us more troop builders!"
So they did. Wave 4 - no Storm Shadow, extra troop builder.
Careful what you ask for...

Splintershins
01-10-2012, 07:43 AM
I think the Renegades figures are great even though I only watched a few episodes of the show. I just use them as 30th figures anyway, so I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about. There really is no chance of making us happy.

Colder Soldier
01-10-2012, 08:06 AM
I've noticed with all Hasbro AF lines, whenever a new figure comes out that requires a lot of new sculpting/tooling, it's short packed in it's initial case. Regardless of the character. I'm sure Hasbro knows how big a hit their best SS and all the w4 Joes were gonna be, that just didn't have enough produced to put 2-3 in a case by years end. I'm sure we'll be getting more at some point, and repaints galore.

Troynos
01-10-2012, 08:11 AM
I haven't seen that many Joes on the pegs since the first wave of RoC.

Why aren't you buying those up and selling them to people on the 'Tank that can't find them?

Colder Soldier
01-10-2012, 08:11 AM
And Brock Samson, you say those figures have been sitting out a week for $5 with no bites? I call shennanigans. Who's stack is that on the bottom shelf to the right? :)

skinny
01-10-2012, 08:33 AM
I haven't seen that many Joes on the pegs since the first wave of RoC.

Why aren't you buying those up and selling them to people on the 'Tank that can't find them?

As noble a concept as that is, there are 180 figures there, Even if say only 30 tankers responded they wanted figures that would take a lot of time, because I know I would take "pre-orders" and have people pay by paypal up front to not get burned. It also would take cash, and shipping on top of it. Shipping overseas takes a little more effort too. Customs forms to fill out, extra insurance delivery conf etc.
It would be a nice thing to do but the poor guy isnt a distributor.
nor should he be. Unless of course selling and trading is a routine part of your collecting which I am guessing for many of us it is not.

Troynos
01-10-2012, 08:35 AM
It was partly in jest. Wouldn't expect him to buy all 180, no one would. He was saying they weren't selling, but I'm sure he could find 2 or 3 guys here that need that stuff.

skinny
01-10-2012, 08:38 AM
It was partly in jest. Wouldn't expect him to buy all 180, no one would. He was saying they weren't selling, but I'm sure he could find 2 or 3 guys here that need that stuff.

true dat thats why i said 30, not 180, darn I need to take jokers "why so serious" advice and lighten up a bit.
Who knows maybe he has PM'ed some of the people in this thread already.

Mech-Viper
01-10-2012, 08:51 AM
more and more I think someone in Hasbro is sniffing glue, and kids its not good for you

speedocub
01-10-2012, 08:56 AM
What they are doing is sending 15 cases to the wrong store(s). Very few of those visible figures are peg warming around here. Most of those would be sold.

I don't think that the western New York stores in total have had that many cases delivered to all of the stores combined.

I've noticed a trend however, it's either feast of famine with greater selection of figures. In places where the demographics don't support a highly articulated and expensive figure, ie, poorer communities, Joes are plentiful and have multiple pegs. However, in markets where the local population has 'more' expendable cash...no joes are to be found or the pegs get replenished one case every month.

Unclassified
01-10-2012, 08:58 AM
So, I see all the threads about people complaining about shitty distribution and peg warmers. The way I see it, the problem is the case breakouts that Hasbro is delivering. The management deciding the makeup has historically made pretty bad predictions on what they anticipate demand to be for figures. If the mix was better, they'd have more consistent sales across stores and distribution would fix itself. Because they have peg warmers (which can be anticipated a majority of the time), stock is stagnating with no replenishment. Also, I think retailers like target are afraid to order more items that will not move. Sad when they've devoted four pegs to joe figures.

Hasbro execs thought the Renegades line would be desirable because of the terrible cartoon and favored them versus the better designed 30th figures. Now, all you see is renegades warming the pegs. Even the renegades cobra trooper, a figure Renegades fans raved about, has been easy to find. This just proves the show was a failure and figures linked to the show follow suit.

The odd thing about wave 3 is storm shadow was in the show, the figure has something both 30th and the few renegades fans like and was packed only one per case. Then he's not even included in the following wave 4 but they give us an extra cobra trooper that was packed two per case in the previous wave!

If you look at the cases and repeats, they often give us the same figure three waves in a row when that figure came 2 to a case in the first appearance. We keep getting hazard vipers, cobra vipers, cobra troopers, iron grenadiers and steel brigades. Though we've had pleasant surprises like the new body for the steel brigade figures, we've been inundated with these figures for months now in stores. Why wave 4 didn't include two of each new figure boggles the mind.

I've included my clearance find below. These figures have been sitting out a week at $5! Mostly comprised of renegades with a few hazard vipers and cobra troopers. Most of the cheddar was scraped out already by the time I got there but these are the remnants of waves 2, 3 and 4.

I know Hasbro employees view these boards on occasion. I can only hope they do some market research and check the barometer for figures on fan sites before deciding on case breakdowns. If they simply posted the images from toy fair and the joecon with blind voting, they could figure out which figures will have the highest demand and produce accordingly.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-h9-ZQUPn9b0/TwcwTCRU99I/AAAAAAAAAgM/3XK2_ceOShU/s800/IMAG0069.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FvhAvCRejfg/TwcwUjddBwI/AAAAAAAAAgU/Yy6zd-rVpPk/s800/IMAG0070.jpg[/QUOTE]

first of all, if i saw pegs that looked like that, i would pull the impossible and shit a elephant, if i saw pegs that looked like that and for 5 a pop, i would shit a elephant and a small indian village.

ljacone
01-10-2012, 09:10 AM
Yeah, that experience is not typical. The Renegades stuff has sold well here except for Firefly. Cobra Commander held on for a while but he's gone. Duke, Snake-Eyes, forget it.

And we never even got the Wave 4 stuff.

Sgt. Airborne
01-10-2012, 09:21 AM
The big question is why are the Cobra Troopers peg warming? What happened to the army builders/hoarders?

WOW! I wish I could buy all those CObra troopers for a mere 5 bucks a pop! Instant army build!!

Exactly. Seven of the figures on the front are troop builders. Everyone says that Hasbro doesn't put out enough troop builders but it reality (recently) I think they have been pretty good. It is hard to tell what figures lie behind all the rows but regardless that is a pretty nice find at $5 a pop. I haven't seen the latest waves (but heard that they have hit the area) and if I ran across this end cap I would have spent $40-45 easily.

What they are doing is sending 15 cases to the wrong store(s). Very few of those visible figures are peg warming around here. Most of those would be sold.

I don't think that the western New York stores in total have had that many cases delivered to all of the stores combined.

I've noticed a trend however, it's either feast of famine with greater selection of figures. In places where the demographics don't support a highly articulated and expensive figure, ie, poorer communities, Joes are plentiful and have multiple pegs. However, in markets where the local population has 'more' expendable cash...no joes are to be found or the pegs get replenished one case every month.

NY represent! J/K. I think that there are a lot of reasons why certain areas have and don't have a good stock of figures. You might be right or at the very least your argument can be added to the main reasons. Some of it is the secondary / ebay market. Some of it is fans buying multiples of hot figures leaving the rest to peg warm. Some of it is shitty case mixes or undesireable figures. I can't really fault Hasbro putting out a Renegades Duke, SE or CC. They tie into the show. I can blame them for putting out the very similar POC Duke though or the POC City Strike SE - the one with the coat - which only served to give us yet ANOTHER version of the characters. I mean would anyone have had a problem if the POC Duke was instead Flint?

WildBill
01-10-2012, 09:22 AM
Wow! I'd be all over those Duke figs for customizing.
I'll take 4 please!

Cdt Weasel
01-10-2012, 09:22 AM
I think one peg in that photo has as many figures as all 4 of my local walmarts combined. Another pegs would cover the 3 targets as well.

OSOK
01-10-2012, 09:24 AM
i havent seen that many joes at retail.....ever....

Dealer Destro
01-10-2012, 09:24 AM
According to a lot of folks on this board Hasbro gets a ton of things wrong. According to people on this board and not Hasbro's balance sheets.....

RogueWingnut
01-10-2012, 09:30 AM
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-h9-ZQUPn9b0/TwcwTCRU99I/AAAAAAAAAgM/3XK2_ceOShU/s800/IMAG0069.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FvhAvCRejfg/TwcwUjddBwI/AAAAAAAAAgU/Yy6zd-rVpPk/s800/IMAG0070.jpg[/QUOTE]

On CLEARANCE.
I'm moving to Atlanta.

Veedubguy83
01-10-2012, 09:33 AM
I wish...

Troynos
01-10-2012, 09:49 AM
According to a lot of folks on this board Hasbro gets a ton of things wrong. According to people on this board and not Hasbro's balance sheets.....

^ This

Troynos
01-10-2012, 09:51 AM
What they are doing is sending 15 cases to the wrong store(s).

Only problem with this, Hasbro doesn't decide/pick/choose where to send product. They are basically told where to send it by which retailers order it.


So apparently in this Atlanta, GA Wal-Mart, the previous waves sold tons, but the demographic in the area doesn't want anything in these waves.

sci-find
01-10-2012, 09:53 AM
I've explained it before, but here we go again (these threads are a bit moot aren't they)

Toys are the same as any other product:
You launch at a certain SRP and calculate an estimate of units to sell for the wholesale price related to that SRP
Once most of these estimated units have been sold (nationwide or globally depending on the product) You lower the SRP and cover a part of the margin lost on leftover products based on the exact numbers a sales partner has left.
Then you offer the next batch of that assortment for a much lower wholesale price, which means chains like Ross and such can jump in and the bigger stores can get a better margin with 2 for 1, 3 for 2 etc.

When a product fails to sell they are dumped via cheaper retailers (again Ross etc.)

To clarify compare it to the Sony PS3
Launch price -> first drop to increase installed base -> Bargain ->
Launch of new line with slight price increase -> first drop back to bargain price -> second and eventual third drop to maintain growth and interest -> Clearance.
Just before clearance the ps4 or whatever they'll call it will be released and the cycle begins anew.

1SGHauser
01-10-2012, 10:00 AM
Hey... Looking at the picture, Hasbro isn't to blame for all of those figures warming the Peg. Target is. They prdered them all... How about leveling some blame at the retailers who are buying up all of these figures? Don't their big number orders help skew the way Hasbro produces/distributes these figures?

And Habro is THE name in action figures. I'm sure they know what they are doing. If not, you would have nothibng to bitch about.

Troynos
01-10-2012, 10:09 AM
Hey... Looking at the picture, Hasbro isn't to blame for all of those figures warming the Peg. Target is. They prdered them all... How about leveling some blame at the retailers who are buying up all of these figures? Don't their big number orders help skew the way Hasbro produces/distributes these figures?


Yes.

This is the problem that came about with RoC. The retailers overordered the first couple waves of product and the demand wasn't there (same thing that happens with all movie waves, but for a retailer, the movie figures are a loss leader anyways, probably same thing will happen with Retaliation).

The difference between G.I. Joe and say Pirates of the Carribbean/Green Lantern/Captain America/Thor/Iron Man is that Joe is meant to be a continuing line. Hasbro, and maybe this is where they messed up but it's hard to tell because of the amount of time that it takes to plan these things is so far in advance, planned on RoC being the new direction for the Joe figures. That's why there were so many waves coming after the initial movie stuff.

The retailers treated it like a normal movie property, where Hasbro wanted it to be continuing like Star Wars ended up being. Problem was that Joe didn't sell like Star Wars, older figures clogged the shelves and the new waves got canceled.

M_renegade
01-10-2012, 10:19 AM
The management deciding the makeup has historically made pretty bad predictions on what they anticipate demand to be for figures.

Yeah, like fans demanding no more Storm Shadows, sure. 9_9

Now, all you see is renegades warming the pegs. Even the renegades cobra trooper, a figure Renegades fans raved about, has been easy to find. This just proves the show was a failure and figures linked to the show follow suit.

Lmao!
It just proves the 30th figs are favourites, not the show was a failure!
most old and new fans actually liked the show.

We keep getting hazard vipers, cobra vipers, cobra troopers, iron grenadiers and steel brigades. Though we've had pleasant surprises like the new body for the steel brigade figures, we've been inundated with these figures for months now in stores.

If i recall correctly, months ago before the 30th line, fans where crybabying about the viper's blue gloves.
30th line was announced, with gloves fixed, and everyone freaked out about the viper, trooper, steel, and hazard v, with people bitching about how difficult was going to find these (and some people actually has troubles).


I know Hasbro employees view these boards on occasion. I can only hope they do some market research and check the barometer for figures on fan sites before deciding on case breakdowns. If they simply posted the images from toy fair and the joecon with blind voting, they could figure out which figures will have the highest demand and produce accordingly.

SS is being difficult to find because people says it's difficult. So scalpers do their work.
Hasbro does his work too.
If i recall correctly again, Jungle viper had a lot of fans, yet...

Also, Hasbro is not going a market research based on fans. Opinions are too divided and biased.
Are you going to buy several SS, SEs or other core characters? what about the wave of Lifeline, Sci Fi etc? Not everyone likes to have lots of MoC figures, specially unique characters. On the other hand packing more troop builders (that fans asked!) makes sense.

Caravankidd
01-10-2012, 10:26 AM
My first thought is you lucky son of a bitch!

Not a single GI Joe related toy on local shelves and if I drive 30 to 40 miles to a place that might have some Joes in stock it will be three or four figures like Arctic Destro or Renegades Duke. I tried to find some before Christmas for my nephews and ended up so empty handed I had to raid my extra's box just to give them some GI Joe action figures.

In some ways Hasbro has gotten better at the cases for someone like me who has to just give up and order an entire case from some place like Big Bad Toy Store. Unfortunately places like Wal-Mart or Target aren't collector friendly so they will just throw anything on the shelves with no real plan other than hope it sells.

Renegades just follows the bad plan Hasbro keeps going with of not having toys with the premiere of their cartoons. It was really late after the cartoon before Transformers Animated toys came out. Renegades got axed before the toys ever hit. People in several locations still waiting on the first Transformers Prime toys.

Not really sure how Hasbro though can break retailers from the movie mania to the idea that Hasbro toys can sell more than just every two to three years if toys linked to a cartoon were sold.

strick9
01-10-2012, 10:39 AM
So, I see all the threads about people complaining about shitty distribution and peg warmers. The way I see it, the problem is the case breakouts that Hasbro is delivering. The management deciding the makeup has historically made pretty bad predictions on what they anticipate demand to be for figures. If the mix was better, they'd have more consistent sales across stores and distribution would fix itself. Because they have peg warmers (which can be anticipated a majority of the time), stock is stagnating with no replenishment. Also, I think retailers like target are afraid to order more items that will not move. Sad when they've devoted four pegs to joe figures.

Hasbro execs thought the Renegades line would be desirable because of the terrible cartoon and favored them versus the better designed 30th figures. Now, all you see is renegades warming the pegs. Even the renegades cobra trooper, a figure Renegades fans raved about, has been easy to find. This just proves the show was a failure and figures linked to the show follow suit.

The odd thing about wave 3 is storm shadow was in the show, the figure has something both 30th and the few renegades fans like and was packed only one per case. Then he's not even included in the following wave 4 but they give us an extra cobra trooper that was packed two per case in the previous wave!

If you look at the cases and repeats, they often give us the same figure three waves in a row when that figure came 2 to a case in the first appearance. We keep getting hazard vipers, cobra vipers, cobra troopers, iron grenadiers and steel brigades. Though we've had pleasant surprises like the new body for the steel brigade figures, we've been inundated with these figures for months now in stores. Why wave 4 didn't include two of each new figure boggles the mind.

I've included my clearance find below. These figures have been sitting out a week at $5! Mostly comprised of renegades with a few hazard vipers and cobra troopers. Most of the cheddar was scraped out already by the time I got there but these are the remnants of waves 2, 3 and 4.

I know Hasbro employees view these boards on occasion. I can only hope they do some market research and check the barometer for figures on fan sites before deciding on case breakdowns. If they simply posted the images from toy fair and the joecon with blind voting, they could figure out which figures will have the highest demand and produce accordingly.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-h9-ZQUPn9b0/TwcwTCRU99I/AAAAAAAAAgM/3XK2_ceOShU/s800/IMAG0069.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FvhAvCRejfg/TwcwUjddBwI/AAAAAAAAAgU/Yy6zd-rVpPk/s800/IMAG0070.jpg[/QUOTE]

Holllllly Shitalkie! I agree with you 100% You should check out Star Buck's agument about how we should buy whats left on the pegs to keep the "brand," movie. Thats spoken like a storemanager or a hasblow rep. (haven't decided which yet.)
Real question and only one I have for you is......What Walmart do you live by???? My walmarts in Sunny Palm Beach / West palm Beach / Wellington / Boynton Beach / Greenacres / Lantana Florida Dont even stock this stuff. Once a blue moon, Wellington super store will get one case, ONE CASE. THat has to be devided by at least 3 Hisstank members, and what ever kids that still play w/ or collect G.I Joe.

homer_sapien
01-10-2012, 10:43 AM
I could scour my area and not come up with nearly as much as in that one picture.

My main Target and Walmart had a combined total of three figures between them last weekend.

homer_sapien
01-10-2012, 10:54 AM
I've noticed with all Hasbro AF lines, whenever a new figure comes out that requires a lot of new sculpting/tooling, it's short packed in it's initial case.

Does that seem completely backwards to anyone else? It just seems to me if they're going to spend the time, money, and effort to put out an actually new figure rather than a kitbash/repaint/rehash they'd want to put that figure out more than just single packed in one case assortment.

homer_sapien
01-10-2012, 11:09 AM
i havent seen that many joes at retail.....ever....

I have. There's a walmart about a 30 minute drive north of me with a back endcap like that full of $10 ROC figures.

jwmagick
01-10-2012, 03:13 PM
Does that seem completely backwards to anyone else? It just seems to me if they're going to spend the time, money, and effort to put out an actually new figure rather than a kitbash/repaint/rehash they'd want to put that figure out more than just single packed in one case assortment.

Yes it does. Lots of TF fans complained about the new Windcharger being only 2 in a case of 12 where half of the case included peg warmers from two waves before.

The new TF Prime voyagers are packed 3x O Prime to 1x Bulkhead. Both very popular characters but you can see what will happen there.

I've no doubt that Hasbro does their homework, but then it seems they don't bother with the occassional pop quiz to try avoid shipping product in new cases that already doesn't move. Wouldn't that help to move the product line more, in general?

zedhatch
01-10-2012, 03:29 PM
So, I see all the threads about people complaining about shitty distribution and peg warmers. The way I see it, the problem is the case breakouts that Hasbro is delivering. The management deciding the makeup has historically made pretty bad predictions on what they anticipate demand to be for figures. If the mix was better, they'd have more consistent sales across stores and distribution would fix itself. Because they have peg warmers (which can be anticipated a majority of the time), stock is stagnating with no replenishment. Also, I think retailers like target are afraid to order more items that will not move. Sad when they've devoted four pegs to joe figures.

Agreed, this is a huge problem in general with Hasbro, Star Wars had tons of clones rotting the pegs for the majority of the past year and a half until reps pulled them down (didn't help much that the heads were turning green as well).

Marvel Universe keeps putting out the pegwarmers with each case, no one can figure out the stratagy here. They were doing ok with comic packs and now have screwed those up too.


The odd thing about wave 3 is storm shadow was in the show, the figure has something both 30th and the few renegades fans like and was packed only one per case. Then he's not even included in the following wave 4 but they give us an extra cobra trooper that was packed two per case in the previous wave!

To be totally fair, (and I never appologize for Hasbro in the least) the last several releases of Storm Shadow have been the pegwarmers. Even now when I go to TJ Maxx the only thing left is ROC Stormy, Desert stormy still lingers in a couple of stores I have been in, and that power ranger stormy wouldn't move for a long time either. They should have been able to anticipate this Stormy was different but I can see where they errored and I bet they are as caught off guard by it's selling out as we are about it being so hard to find (which I think is also precipitated by the fact that the last several were so easy to find).


If you look at the cases and repeats, they often give us the same figure three waves in a row when that figure came 2 to a case in the first appearance. We keep getting hazard vipers, cobra vipers, cobra troopers, iron grenadiers and steel brigades. Though we've had pleasant surprises like the new body for the steel brigade figures, we've been inundated with these figures for months now in stores. Why wave 4 didn't include two of each new figure boggles the mind.

Again to be fair Hasbro only recently started doing this (FINALLY) previous to this year the cases were usueally filled with Duke's and Snake Eye's the rest of the way (Movie lines suffered from this greatly as well, all the way back to Indy). Star Wars still hasn't figured it out (and they used to do better ratios, and apparently sold better as a result).

Why Hasbro hasn't picked up on this I may never really understand.

brock Samson
01-10-2012, 04:07 PM
Just to clarify my earlier post, this Walmart is an hour NW from Atlanta. It was mentioned by the OP of another thread who found the huge display with wave 4 while on vacation. I drove out of my way just to pick up wave 4 and found what you see in the picture. These were all leftovers from wave 2,3 and 4. Also, don't let what's showing on the front pegs fool you, that display was at least 70% renegades with a few blueshirts, hazard vipers, and iron grenadiers mixed in.

For a few years now, fans have been screaming "no more Snake Eyes, Storm Shadows or Dukes! give us more troop builders!"
So they did. Wave 4 - no Storm Shadow, extra troop builder.
Careful what you ask for...

Bullshit, they just gave us more se, cc, duke renegades figures and they're clogging the shelves. Yes, we asked for more troop builders and the answer was to pack two per case. They don't need to give us another of the same figure in the two following waves! They gave us Scarlett, Tunnel Rat and Ripcord two waves in a row but neglect Storm Shadow which happened to be the best designed of the bunch.

I've noticed with all Hasbro AF lines, whenever a new figure comes out that requires a lot of new sculpting/tooling, it's short packed in it's initial case. Regardless of the character. I'm sure Hasbro knows how big a hit their best SS and all the w4 Joes were gonna be, that just didn't have enough produced to put 2-3 in a case by years end. I'm sure we'll be getting more at some point, and repaints galore.

Well, the duke and CC were almost purely new sculpt where SE and Firefly were partially kitbashed and all four came two to a case. I can see how the ramp up of production would cause Hasbro to short pack new figures but they constantly show us they can give two per case when they're new sculpt so I don't buy it. I think I agree that these few wave 3 and 4 cases slipped out before the holiday and may show up in force. But then again, this doesn't explain what happened to poc wave 4,5 and 6 which came out long before the holiday time frame.

And Brock Samson, you say those figures have been sitting out a week for $5 with no bites? I call shennanigans. Who's stack is that on the bottom shelf to the right? :)

I had already picked up the few steel brigade, techno viper, vipers and a stalker that you can see stacked on the side. Honestly, I would not have bought them if I'd found the wave 4 figs I was expecting. After spending the time and gas to go out there, I didn't want to leave empty handed and grabbed what I thought would be good figures for trades. I didn't even make a dent as you could see.

As noble a concept as that is, there are 180 figures there, Even if say only 30 tankers responded they wanted figures that would take a lot of time, because I know I would take "pre-orders" and have people pay by paypal up front to not get burned. It also would take cash, and shipping on top of it. Shipping overseas takes a little more effort too. Customs forms to fill out, extra insurance delivery conf etc.
It would be a nice thing to do but the poor guy isnt a distributor.
nor should he be. Unless of course selling and trading is a routine part of your collecting which I am guessing for many of us it is not.

I am not interested in anything but trading for what I want. If you have items on my wants list, I'll trade the items I have or can get locally. As long as you value the items fairly without ridiculous bias for your own items.

Yes.

This is the problem that came about with RoC. The retailers overordered the first couple waves of product and the demand wasn't there (same thing that happens with all movie waves, but for a retailer, the movie figures are a loss leader anyways, probably same thing will happen with Retaliation).

The difference between G.I. Joe and say Pirates of the Carribbean/Green Lantern/Captain America/Thor/Iron Man is that Joe is meant to be a continuing line. Hasbro, and maybe this is where they messed up but it's hard to tell because of the amount of time that it takes to plan these things is so far in advance, planned on RoC being the new direction for the Joe figures. That's why there were so many waves coming after the initial movie stuff.

The retailers treated it like a normal movie property, where Hasbro wanted it to be continuing like Star Wars ended up being. Problem was that Joe didn't sell like Star Wars, older figures clogged the shelves and the new waves got canceled.

Don't fool yourself, the licensed movie and other media properties that hasbro sells are money makers but they don't bring in the profits like their own home owned brands like transformers and gijoe. Just like Lego makes more money on their original themes versus the licensed star wars, Warner Brothers and Disney themes. Hasbro overestimated demand but I firmly believe that the success of a movie directly relates to the toys associated with them. Movies that did well sold well like Thor and Captain America. Keep in mind they devoted four pegs at target along with vehicles and prop tie ins. Look at Green Lantern, an awful movie which has action figures languishing on the shelves. Transformers was well received and Hasbro made a windfall. They were banking on that kind of success with ROC but the movie didn't pass muster.

The big problem is the case assortment mix. Hasbro is it's own worst enemy and that's what I'm trying to get across. If they give us a good variety, there will be less stagnation on the shelves and new product can be cycled in making everyone happy.

What Hasbro needs is a little community outreach like an ambassador program that Lego runs. Just pick a few fans for a set period of time (say 4-6 months) and use them as a barometer for feedback. Maybe even send free product for the feedback that they give. This way they can get different points of view, from adults that are buying as collectors or for their children. By showing the ambassadors concept art or prototypes, they can get raw data to base assortments on. This isn't a new concept, it's just not being applied at Hasbro. They can always do child testing in focus groups anywhere. I guess it's my business background at work here. The ideal world is to accurately anticipate demand and be as accurate in providing all of the supply that is in demand.

Hasbro leaves a lot of money on the table. The whole secondary market for figures exists because they are not giving consumers what they want. The people that are selling these figures online only exist because Hasbro leaves that void in the market by not providing the supply to meet the demand. It's not the resellers that cause the problem, it's Hasbro. I'm not saying Hasbro can be perfect all the time as this isn't an exact science. By doing better research and making good educated decisions based off research will minimize these constant waves of hard to find figures. I'm sure mistakes will be made but we won't have problems like wave 4,5,6 of POC where very few made it to retail due to earlier mistakes creating a secondary market with prices 2-4 times retail value. It's too early to say if 30th wave 3 and 4 will suffer similarly. IMHO, it's just like the new battlestar galactica quote goes "This has all happened before and it will all happen again."

cobracobra
01-10-2012, 04:14 PM
I would cream my jeans if I saw that bunch.

gunslingercbr
01-10-2012, 04:15 PM
if arctic Destro was packed one per case people would be complaining about how Hasbro should have packed him more and doesn't know what they are doing. fans whine about too many Storm Shadows and when Hasbro doesn't saturate the market with him, they complain about it.

fact is, no matter what figure saw a small release, the fans were going to complain that that was the figure that should have been packed 6 per case. it has nothing to do with the figure or whether Hasbro knows what they are doing, it has to do with teh fact that the figure you can't find is automatically the most awesome figure ever made and Hasbro are idiots for not knowing that.

brock Samson
01-10-2012, 07:00 PM
My point exactly cbr, people wouldn't be complaining about Arctic Destros if he was packed one per case. We also don't complain when they put out a good version of an overused character and pack two per case like wave 3 POC SE. We complain about unnecessary or poor versions like wave 1 POC SE and wave 3 POC Duke. The Duke figure is interesting, but but imagine another character with a different head and a gun from the Aliens and you would have had more interest from buyers. Most figures return in revision cases but some have been overlooked. I've seen revision cases for wave 4 but they never gave low light another appearance.

No need to exaggerate as no figure deserves half a case count. I'm not saying Storm Shadow is the most awesome figure but when you look at the crap they've been giving us that warms the shelves, there is a big contrast when the one stand out figure is short packed and doesn't make an appearance in the next wave's case. Hasbro alone is to blame on this one. They are idiots for not knowing that. You know why? Just look at the figure. A lot of loving care went into the sculpt. The figure was carefully designed to make two versions of the same character with an unparalleled assortment of accessories. How can they go through all the effort to design a figure to cater to collectors and a cartoon but not include 2 in a case? Move on to wave 4, they spent half the case on repeats from the previous wave including two that were packed twice in wave 3.

My suggestion is that new waves contain mostly new figures. I'd be fine if they simply introduced 5 new figures 2 per case and gave us two repeats. Then, they can do additional case revisions after they've launched all the new product if demand is there. Hasbro has gotten it right on previous case assortments but there latest releases seem random. There isn't any consistency to it all and it ends up hurting Hasbro in the long run because they're not maintaining a variety at retailers that would help move product. I don't claim to know everything and there could definitely be supply and productions issues that force them to mix products that have already been made with new stock coming from China.

Maybe next time they have their Q&A, we can ask the question of how they go about deciding a case assortment breakdown.

strick9
01-10-2012, 07:28 PM
Just to clarify my earlier post, this Walmart is an hour NW from Atlanta. It was mentioned by the OP of another thread who found the huge display with wave 4 while on vacation. I drove out of my way just to pick up wave 4 and found what you see in the picture. These were all leftovers from wave 2,3 and 4. Also, don't let what's showing on the front pegs fool you, that display was at least 70% renegades with a few blueshirts, hazard vipers, and iron grenadiers mixed in.



Bullshit, they just gave us more se, cc, duke renegades figures and they're clogging the shelves. Yes, we asked for more troop builders and the answer was to pack two per case. They don't need to give us another of the same figure in the two following waves! They gave us Scarlett, Tunnel Rat and Ripcord two waves in a row but neglect Storm Shadow which happened to be the best designed of the bunch.



Well, the duke and CC were almost purely new sculpt where SE and Firefly were partially kitbashed and all four came two to a case. I can see how the ramp up of production would cause Hasbro to short pack new figures but they constantly show us they can give two per case when they're new sculpt so I don't buy it. I think I agree that these few wave 3 and 4 cases slipped out before the holiday and may show up in force. But then again, this doesn't explain what happened to poc wave 4,5 and 6 which came out long before the holiday time frame.



I had already picked up the few steel brigade, techno viper, vipers and a stalker that you can see stacked on the side. Honestly, I would not have bought them if I'd found the wave 4 figs I was expecting. After spending the time and gas to go out there, I didn't want to leave empty handed and grabbed what I thought would be good figures for trades. I didn't even make a dent as you could see.



I am not interested in anything but trading for what I want. If you have items on my wants list, I'll trade the items I have or can get locally. As long as you value the items fairly without ridiculous bias for your own items.



Don't fool yourself, the licensed movie and other media properties that hasbro sells are money makers but they don't bring in the profits like their own home owned brands like transformers and gijoe. Just like Lego makes more money on their original themes versus the licensed star wars, Warner Brothers and Disney themes. Hasbro overestimated demand but I firmly believe that the success of a movie directly relates to the toys associated with them. Movies that did well sold well like Thor and Captain America. Keep in mind they devoted four pegs at target along with vehicles and prop tie ins. Look at Green Lantern, an awful movie which has action figures languishing on the shelves. Transformers was well received and Hasbro made a windfall. They were banking on that kind of success with ROC but the movie didn't pass muster.

The big problem is the case assortment mix. Hasbro is it's own worst enemy and that's what I'm trying to get across. If they give us a good variety, there will be less stagnation on the shelves and new product can be cycled in making everyone happy.

What Hasbro needs is a little community outreach like an ambassador program that Lego runs. Just pick a few fans for a set period of time (say 4-6 months) and use them as a barometer for feedback. Maybe even send free product for the feedback that they give. This way they can get different points of view, from adults that are buying as collectors or for their children. By showing the ambassadors concept art or prototypes, they can get raw data to base assortments on. This isn't a new concept, it's just not being applied at Hasbro. They can always do child testing in focus groups anywhere. I guess it's my business background at work here. The ideal world is to accurately anticipate demand and be as accurate in providing all of the supply that is in demand.

Hasbro leaves a lot of money on the table. The whole secondary market for figures exists because they are not giving consumers what they want. The people that are selling these figures online only exist because Hasbro leaves that void in the market by not providing the supply to meet the demand. It's not the resellers that cause the problem, it's Hasbro. I'm not saying Hasbro can be perfect all the time as this isn't an exact science. By doing better research and making good educated decisions based off research will minimize these constant waves of hard to find figures. I'm sure mistakes will be made but we won't have problems like wave 4,5,6 of POC where very few made it to retail due to earlier mistakes creating a secondary market with prices 2-4 times retail value. It's too early to say if 30th wave 3 and 4 will suffer similarly. IMHO, it's just like the new battlestar galactica quote goes "This has all happened before and it will all happen again."

I agree with what Brook just stated. I do not believe for a minute, that with how big G.I Joe was in the 3.75 form in the 80's. That they did not have boots on the ground, check up with store, watching what was moving. I think the idea of having a rep in local areas would help. But the key is to present it in a "non-profit," fan only kind of way. I think that access to current or projected product releases would help also.
But ultimately we live in a "what corners can I cut and still hit my goal," market. It would be nice to just get some knuckle heads into position that really care about the product, to please us the fans and not look at it as "a shit load of money to be made."
Also were are the Toy comercials? I remember being a rabid animal as a child. There was a G.I Joe toy commercial on every 15-20 minutes of the cartoon block. Now,...........Not even on the Hub have I seen a single Joe and or Star Wars or Transformers commercial. I think they are missing out with that.

nighthawk
01-10-2012, 07:49 PM
I wish they would release new figures in Canada! All I keep seeing are Blowtorch and CC's!

XAMOT
01-10-2012, 07:57 PM
Consider yourself lucky, I don't even have GI Joe figures at my Walmart.

Hawk1171
01-10-2012, 08:00 PM
Guys - Hasbro only knows what figures are selling if they watch the boards. They don't care about individual figs. They care about profit and loss. The case assortments are wjat they are. Stop whining and deal with it.

Python_Puckman
01-10-2012, 08:05 PM
Consider yourself lucky, I don't even have GI Joe figures at my Walmart.

Yep. I'd be happy at this point just to see a few wave 1 guys just so I knew the stores didn't stop carrying Joes altogether.

brock Samson
01-11-2012, 01:15 AM
Guys - Hasbro only knows what figures are selling if they watch the boards. They don't care about individual figs. They care about profit and loss. The case assortments are wjat they are. Stop whining and deal with it.

First off, no one is whining. This is intelligent conversation.

STAFF EDIT: 1. No trolling, flaming

Hasbro would sell more if they made a better variety available. It's not about individual figures, it's about moving more cases into stores. If they have peg warmers from lack of variety, store inventory systems DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY REORDER! If you add up hundreds of stores with peg warmers, that's hundreds of cases not being sold in.

Shin Densetsu
01-11-2012, 10:21 AM
Wow brock samson, one of my Walmarts only has 2 Cobra Commanders on 1 peg in the regular aisle. Even on clearance your Walmart gave a lot of love to GI Joe with that island display.

Griff
01-11-2012, 10:21 AM
when has hasbro EVER been able to get case assortments properly?

ChicagoScott
01-11-2012, 10:36 AM
Has anyone considered the possibility that the reason Stormshadow isn't repacked in wave 4 and the revision case is because some of his parts and accessories are being used on Retaliation figures. I'm purely speculating here, but I've heard a rumor that there may be a few ninjas in Retaliation and my guess is the retaliation figures have a higher priority over the 30th line.

Caravankidd
01-11-2012, 10:40 AM
First off, no one is whining. This is intelligent conversation.

STAFF EDIT: 1. No trolling, flaming

Hasbro would sell more if they made a better variety available. It's not about individual figures, it's about moving more cases into stores. If they have peg warmers from lack of variety, store inventory systems DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY REORDER! If you add up hundreds of stores with peg warmers, that's hundreds of cases not being sold in.

Some of the problem though comes from retailers and there isn't much of anything that Hasbro can do about that.

I don't think Hasbro forced anyone one at Wal-Mart to over order waves 1 and 2 of the GI Joe movie line. But too many stores blamed Hasbro and empty shelves now for too many of us. Lots of Wal-Mart stores with no peg warmers because there isn't a peg in the first place.

Even with a great case assortment retailers would still find a way to mess it all up by ordering too much of the first waves and then not ordering the later waves with desirable figures. Until retailers can get their act together Hasbro can only do so much on their end to fix things.

coreystinson
01-11-2012, 10:46 AM
The odd thing about wave 3 is storm shadow was in the show, the figure has something both 30th and the few renegades fans like and was packed only one per case. Then he's not even included in the following wave 4 but they give us an extra cobra trooper that was packed two per case in the previous wave!


As a retailer, gotta say you hit the nail on the head and especially with the above paragraph. The only way this can be redeemed is if Hasbro has a refresh wave planned for late winter that will throw back out there this Storm Shadow figure, as well as all of the recent 30th Anniv. figures. This would also have been a good time to insert a few Kwinn's in such a case. With their focus on movie toys, though, I doubt you will see it happening. Thus, your chance to get the last 30th Anniv. figures at a regular retail price is probably already over. As I always say, end of year is tricky, take no chances, especially when focus is transitioning into the "next big push" which in this case will be GI JOE: Retaliation.

EduardimusPrime
01-11-2012, 10:46 AM
So, I see all the threads about people complaining about shitty distribution and peg warmers. The way I see it, the problem is the case breakouts that Hasbro is delivering. The management deciding the makeup has historically made pretty bad predictions on what they anticipate demand to be for figures. If the mix was better, they'd have more consistent sales across stores and distribution would fix itself. Because they have peg warmers (which can be anticipated a majority of the time), stock is stagnating with no replenishment. Also, I think retailers like target are afraid to order more items that will not move. Sad when they've devoted four pegs to joe figures.

Hasbro execs thought the Renegades line would be desirable because of the terrible cartoon and favored them versus the better designed 30th figures. Now, all you see is renegades warming the pegs. Even the renegades cobra trooper, a figure Renegades fans raved about, has been easy to find. This just proves the show was a failure and figures linked to the show follow suit.

The odd thing about wave 3 is storm shadow was in the show, the figure has something both 30th and the few renegades fans like and was packed only one per case. Then he's not even included in the following wave 4 but they give us an extra cobra trooper that was packed two per case in the previous wave!

If you look at the cases and repeats, they often give us the same figure three waves in a row when that figure came 2 to a case in the first appearance. We keep getting hazard vipers, cobra vipers, cobra troopers, iron grenadiers and steel brigades. Though we've had pleasant surprises like the new body for the steel brigade figures, we've been inundated with these figures for months now in stores. Why wave 4 didn't include two of each new figure boggles the mind.

I've included my clearance find below. These figures have been sitting out a week at $5! Mostly comprised of renegades with a few hazard vipers and cobra troopers. Most of the cheddar was scraped out already by the time I got there but these are the remnants of waves 2, 3 and 4.

I know Hasbro employees view these boards on occasion. I can only hope they do some market research and check the barometer for figures on fan sites before deciding on case breakdowns. If they simply posted the images from toy fair and the joecon with blind voting, they could figure out which figures will have the highest demand and produce accordingly.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-h9-ZQUPn9b0/TwcwTCRU99I/AAAAAAAAAgM/3XK2_ceOShU/s800/IMAG0069.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FvhAvCRejfg/TwcwUjddBwI/AAAAAAAAAgU/Yy6zd-rVpPk/s800/IMAG0070.jpg[/QUOTE]

I wish my wall mart had a fourth of the joes pictured here. I would be a happy fan if I could walk into a store and pick up an army of troopers.

jwmagick
01-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Guys - Hasbro only knows what figures are selling if they watch the boards. They don't care about individual figs. They care about profit and loss. The case assortments are wjat they are. Stop whining and deal with it.

But it seems that caring about individual figures would improve case assortments, which in turn would help move more product, which then positively impacts profit and loss.

jwmagick
01-11-2012, 10:55 AM
Some of the problem though comes from retailers and there isn't much of anything that Hasbro can do about that.

I don't think Hasbro forced anyone one at Wal-Mart to over order waves 1 and 2 of the GI Joe movie line. But too many stores blamed Hasbro and empty shelves now for too many of us. Lots of Wal-Mart stores with no peg warmers because there isn't a peg in the first place.

Even with a great case assortment retailers would still find a way to mess it all up by ordering too much of the first waves and then not ordering the later waves with desirable figures. Until retailers can get their act together Hasbro can only do so much on their end to fix things.

But do retailers such as big box stores orders by wave or by line? Seems that if they do order by wave then after 7 movie lines they would have finally paid attention to not order so much of the first two waves.

If they order by line, then Hasbro does have some control in that they could start to ship the next waves instead of more of the first 2 waves.

Dem_Yoe'z!
01-11-2012, 11:13 AM
I wish my wall mart had a fourth of the joes pictured here. I would be a happy fan if I could walk into a store and pick up an army of troopers.[/QUOTE]

^ditto this.^ I've done my part, I've got 103 30th/POC Cobra Troopers and if I walked into that WM I'd buy every one of those there!

zedhatch
01-11-2012, 11:24 AM
My point exactly cbr, people wouldn't be complaining about Arctic Destros if he was packed one per case. We also don't complain when they put out a good version of an overused character and pack two per case like wave 3 POC SE. We complain about unnecessary or poor versions like wave 1 POC SE and wave 3 POC Duke. The Duke figure is interesting, but but imagine another character with a different head and a gun from the Aliens and you would have had more interest from buyers. Most figures return in revision cases but some have been overlooked. I've seen revision cases for wave 4 but they never gave low light another appearance.

Just opinion, Wave 1 POC wasn't bad, just unnessessary with Wave 3 coming. Duke, ok we didn't need another, I can agree there.

Also (if memory serves) part of the problem with Artic Destro is he was in every single revision case while other characters got glossed over. Armored Destro is in a similar boat to Stormy as he didn't get carried over and is near impossible to find, so it's not Destro himself (although I admit I've had enough of him).


[/UOTE]
No need to exaggerate as no figure deserves half a case count. I'm not saying Storm Shadow is the most awesome figure[/QUOTE]

Actually I will go on record to say he is the most awesome figure, He really stands out and is just incredible. I love the fig and consider myself extreamly lucky to have him in my collection, I would feel that way even if he was warming the pegs right now, he is just a really great figure with great articulation, great mold (OK minus the Renegades head) that holds a multitude of weapons and well is just awesome. That alone makes the fact he wasn't carried over even more boneheaded.

I am getting flashbacks of Karmakura, he seems to be the only ROC fig that wasn't carried forward and to me he was one of the best (even though he was reused parts, which is actually an even greater testement to how cool he really was IMO).


Maybe next time they have their Q&A, we can ask the question of how they go about deciding a case assortment breakdown.

I seem to recall this having been asked and just getting a vauge answer. However, that might have been a question about MU cases, but I doubt asking again will yeild anything new.

According to a lot of folks on this board Hasbro gets a ton of things wrong. According to people on this board and not Hasbro's balance sheets......

Well we never, ever know how Joe really fairs in all of that, we sometimes get told they sold well but other tmes we are told they did poor, Hasbro has a lot more going on than just Joe and if the balance sheets are up for (let's say for example) board games enough to boost profits, that doesn't mean Joes are doing great.

Second, (and most important), If their balance sheets are so great, how can they have some of the MOST recognized brands in the WORLD and still be the #2 toy company. Mattel (as much as I generally don't like Mattel's products) seems to beat them every year in sales. With what hasbro has under it's wing (Mavel, Joe, Transformers, STAR WARS) they should have taken the top spot in toy companies years ago, and yet they haven't.

zedhatch
01-11-2012, 11:28 AM
But do retailers such as big box stores orders by wave or by line? Seems that if they do order by wave then after 7 movie lines they would have finally paid attention to not order so much of the first two waves.

If they order by line, then Hasbro does have some control in that they could start to ship the next waves instead of more of the first 2 waves.

I;ve worked at WM, and I have a buddy that's still a manager and generally they order by line, sometimes there are options for waves but (unless someone is paying attention) the order choice is for a specific wave that is available at the time of order. However, my firend tells me Hasbro has cancelled orders to the distrobution houses (and thus stores) this was really bad with the first 5 or 6 waves of Marvel Universe and 25th Ann. lines, this is why they were so hard to find (Hasbro couldn't keep up with demand) yet the retailers, who were attempting to get the product, couldn't get it at all.

Troynos
01-11-2012, 11:30 AM
Wait... wait... wait...

I completely missed the quote about no one complaining about Arctic Destro if he was packed one per case...

So it's okay for Hasbro to pack a unique figure (non-troop builder) one per case but it's not okay for Hasbro to pack a unique figure one per case.

And yes, that does make sense.

Who determines which unique figure is going to sell more then the other? How is Hasbro able to determine that? Use their crystal ball?

It's going to happen that some unique figures will be hits, some will be misses.

Storm Shadow is a popular character. But then so is Destro.

Arctic Destro didn't prove as popular as Hasbro thought it would.

But because there is no such thing as a crystal ball to predict the future, they have to have an all-encompassing strategy on how to deal with unique figures in case packs.

And the safer bet, to prevent peg warmers, is one per case.

CrimsonGuard101
01-11-2012, 11:37 AM
Eeek look at all of them dukes and snake eyes lol...all renegades too...and firefly...go figure...

I love the way they have the $5 price tag above em and no prices on the peg holders. I bet they won;t even ring up knowing walmarts fantastic invetory system. Gotta remeber all them folks who could not wait and had them ringing em out for $1 up at the registers and then the stores not knwoing how much they sold and ooops never re-ordering cause it said they havd 500 figures and none on the pegs till now...intersting isint it?

Its not Hasbro's fault...its retails fault. They fail to udnerstand what a "wave assortment" is. To them it is just product to sell. They do not look at the complete picture and never will the last 4 years has proven to me...

Troynos
01-11-2012, 11:40 AM
These "problems" existed in the 80s too.

I remember not being able to find Beachhead or Dial-Tone anywhere in my area (and back in those days there were 4 or 5 department stores around, all selling Joes). There were plenty of figures of the other characters in that release.

Finally found them at a store in Maine when on vacation and I had to convince my mother to pick 'em up.

captain mal
01-11-2012, 11:42 AM
I'll admit - I don't have the desire to read this entire long-winded thread. However, I'm gonna chime in.

I don't think its totally a case assortment problem.

The 30th / Renegades line is as close to the classic line as ever - and its the closest Hasbro has come to listening to US. Look at it - we've got great, colorful packaging ; awesome figures that have alot of variety, color, and accessories. Great new sculpt figures in Cobra Commander, Duke, Firefly, Scarlett, etc.

So, why is it still not selling?

First - I will say that having the Iron Grenadier, Cobra Trooper, and Snake Eyes in the initial wave took up valuable peg space that could have been used for something better. But why did Duke, Firefly, and Cobra Commander not sell? They are GREAT.

My theory is PRICE. $7 - $8 is too high for a 3 3/4" action figure. Take yourself out of the collector's mindset for a minute - if you were an average parent, and you wanted to get the kid something... you could either get one action figure, or say, one of the smaller entry-level nerf guns... which do you think would sound like a better deal?

I ask myself the same question. Why does a Nerf Gun - that has moving parts - and 10 times the amount of plastic as an action figure - cost the same price? I got two of the six-shooter Nerf guns for $12 a couple weeks ago. Lots more playability in that than in an action figure.

I think its in big part due to Walmart dictating prices. We all know they strongarm everyone to give the pricepoints they want - and Walmart seems to want action figures at $7-$8 each. I gaurantee you that they are still making money on them when they close them out at $5 each though. Just makes the line weaker - things move slower - and later waves get lost in the void...

zedhatch
01-11-2012, 11:45 AM
Wait... wait... wait...

I completely missed the quote about no one complaining about Arctic Destro if he was packed one per case...

So it's okay for Hasbro to pack a unique figure (non-troop builder) one per case but it's not okay for Hasbro to pack a unique figure one per case.

And yes, that does make sense.

Who determines which unique figure is going to sell more then the other? How is Hasbro able to determine that? Use their crystal ball?

It's going to happen that some unique figures will be hits, some will be misses.

Storm Shadow is a popular character. But then so is Destro.

Arctic Destro didn't prove as popular as Hasbro thought it would.

But because there is no such thing as a crystal ball to predict the future, they have to have an all-encompassing strategy on how to deal with unique figures in case packs.

And the safer bet, to prevent peg warmers, is one per case.

marvel Universe tried that, and the result was a bunch of Iron man's to fill the case out.

I do agree that there is no way to predict what will sell for certian, if you look at stormy's recent history he hasn't done well since ROC (he has been the last one on almost every case he's been in that I see and some of those linger of a long time, I know stores that still have ROC and POC desert in them and have been there since the release).

Still it is odd that Hasbro can't figure out they overdid ROC with Stormy, and that the other releases were just very poor (although I grant you the POC Desert version had some cool accessories).

zedhatch
01-11-2012, 11:54 AM
So, why is it still not selling?

First - I will say that having the Iron Grenadier, Cobra Trooper, and Snake Eyes in the initial wave took up valuable peg space that could have been used for something better. But why did Duke, Firefly, and Cobra Commander not sell? They are GREAT.

Just to clairify, Stalker was in the first wave, not Snake Eyes, he was in the second.

Personally (and this is just me talking) I think the characters of Duke, SE, CC, and FF have hit a saturation point, I know I intended on passing on them but my wife got me CC and FF for christmas and while I like FF, I can kind of see why CC is hanging around.

SS has hit that point as well, but the difference is this design is hugely awesome in comparison to the last few, and as such is in that must have status.


My theory is PRICE. $7 - $8 is too high for a 3 3/4" action figure. Take yourself out of the collector's mindset for a minute - if you were an average parent, and you wanted to get the kid something... you could either get one action figure, or say, one of the smaller entry-level nerf guns... which do you think would sound like a better deal?

Price is a valid point too, how many times have we seen posts by collectors (myself included) who said they had to cut back because of price increases.


I think its in big part due to Walmart dictating prices. We all know they strongarm everyone to give the pricepoints they want - and Walmart seems to want action figures at $7-$8 each. I gaurantee you that they are still making money on them when they close them out at $5 each though. Just makes the line weaker - things move slower - and later waves get lost in the void...


If it were just WM I would think you have a point, but it's accross the board and it seems no one anywhere is able to get a lower price. I think it's Hasbro trying to get as much out of it as they can, looking at MU the cost was $10 when they were released and after some bad sales the price quietly dropped to around $7 or $8, no explaination or reason (i'm glad it did, but still wonder why as none of the other toylines dropped). This was also after the big feasco of the ROC line where the CEO admitted they charged too much for the ROC line. But the way he said it was more like they COULD have charged less, but thought it would sell more, at least that was the way I read it.

Colder Soldier
01-11-2012, 11:57 AM
when has hasbro EVER been able to get case assortments properly?

-POC wave 4
-POC wave 5
-POC wave 6
-30th wave 1

Equality is the key. And not over-producing, and over-packing figures that overly suck. My opinion.

I've done my part, I've got 103 30th/POC Cobra Troopers and if I walked into that WM I'd buy every one of those there!Pics please! :)

Troynos
01-11-2012, 11:58 AM
A problem was that everyone thought RoC would sell better.

facehammer
01-11-2012, 11:58 AM
And here is a crazy thought... Hasbro releases movie figures a few months before the movie hits... But, when they have a TV show, the figures hit months after the show starts (or finishes and gets cancelled) Renegades did this... TF: Animated did this. TF: Prime is doing this right now.
Timing is pretty important.

Shin Densetsu
01-11-2012, 12:21 PM
As a retailer, gotta say you hit the nail on the head and especially with the above paragraph. The only way this can be redeemed is if Hasbro has a refresh wave planned for late winter that will throw back out there this Storm Shadow figure, as well as all of the recent 30th Anniv. figures. This would also have been a good time to insert a few Kwinn's in such a case. With their focus on movie toys, though, I doubt you will see it happening. Thus, your chance to get the last 30th Anniv. figures at a regular retail price is probably already over. As I always say, end of year is tricky, take no chances, especially when focus is transitioning into the "next big push" which in this case will be GI JOE: Retaliation.

Damn. This is the exact same thing that happened with ROTF Human Alliance Mudflap. Most who were looking for it ONLY found it at TJ Maxx, it never hit most mass market retail shelves across the states.

kndy
01-11-2012, 12:53 PM
These "problems" existed in the 80s too.

I remember not being able to find Beachhead or Dial-Tone anywhere in my area (and back in those days there were 4 or 5 department stores around, all selling Joes). There were plenty of figures of the other characters in that release.

Finally found them at a store in Maine when on vacation and I had to convince my mother to pick 'em up.

It existed but there was also a major difference back then. Sure, Kenner had distribution problems for "Star Wars" in the late '70s thus the Early Bird figures but by the '80s...for Hasbro..."Star Wars", "G.I. Joes", "Masters of the Universe"...these were hard to find because of demand (as the animated series were quite popular) not because of distribution problems.

Back then, I could walk into the downtown pharmacy and find G.I. Joes, while we didn't have Wal-Mart or Target back then, I can easily find them at Montgomery Wards, Sears, K-Mart and we were also blessed with those big catalogs that our grandparents or parents could order from.

The problems of GI Joe releases today is bad distribution nationwide. While some states are able to get them, many others didn't (and yes, even we in California as evident on the three sightings pages did not get Wave 4).

Troynos
01-11-2012, 12:57 PM
The problem you're talking about isn't distribution, it's lack of product on shelves which means it's not as popular.

The biggest problem Joe faces is lack of sales. If the figures sold better, there would be more ordered and the case packs wouldn't be an issue.

CrimsonGuard101
01-11-2012, 01:02 PM
The lack of product on the shelf is NOT a popularity issue....

The factors i blame the most here are the people who have the stockers rob the stock rooms before the figures are intdned to be released, buying them and telling chasiers all manner of stories to get them rung up way below cost and then you have the retailers saying screw it, just order whats availble next time we do inevtory, and then hey maybe well just stock what we feel liek an dkeep the pegs mostly bare for 4-6 months and whola you have the issues currenlty experience. By the time retail figures it out we are on wave 5 availability form Hasbro to be ordered and then clearence then on to the newxt movie line around the corner...rinse and repeat...nothing has chnaged over the last 4 years with this...retail is the issue...they are moronic...order a full case online and save a whale...

gunslingercbr
01-11-2012, 01:26 PM
But it seems that caring about individual figures would improve case assortments, which in turn would help move more product, which then positively impacts profit and loss.
except the board fans have been whining for years that Hasbro needed to focus on increasing the army builders in the cases and reducing the individual figures because they couldn't find troops but individual characters were warming the pegs, and when they get it they whine about not finding the individuals.

same with Storm Shadow. we whine for years that they shouldn't release so many, so when they short pack him, and the short pack causes the demand not the figure itself simply because we want what we can't find, we then recreate the argument and say Hasbro should have known THIS Storm Shadow was different, despite the fact that we have been whining not to continue to release the character, because THIS one is the super-dooperest SS of them all! it is just ludicrous beyond belief.

and that was my original point. most fans simply react to the current situation and think whatever is occurring now that isn't meeting their needs then the opposite must be done, and they never grasp that they continually contradict themselves by creating new rules for the argument.

it is a constant inability to think critically about the situation and and place blame rather than accept the blame for their own past requests. they either ignore the past or simply want to recreate history to suit the current desire.

My point exactly cbr, people wouldn't be complaining about Arctic Destros if he was packed one per case. We also don't complain when they put out a good version of an overused character and pack two per case like wave 3 POC SE. We complain about unnecessary or poor versions like wave 1 POC SE and wave 3 POC Duke. The Duke figure is interesting, but but imagine another character with a different head and a gun from the Aliens and you would have had more interest from buyers. Most figures return in revision cases but some have been overlooked. I've seen revision cases for wave 4 but they never gave low light another appearance.

No need to exaggerate as no figure deserves half a case count. I'm not saying Storm Shadow is the most awesome figure but when you look at the crap they've been giving us that warms the shelves, there is a big contrast when the one stand out figure is short packed and doesn't make an appearance in the next wave's case. Hasbro alone is to blame on this one. They are idiots for not knowing that. You know why? Just look at the figure. A lot of loving care went into the sculpt. The figure was carefully designed to make two versions of the same character with an unparalleled assortment of accessories. How can they go through all the effort to design a figure to cater to collectors and a cartoon but not include 2 in a case? Move on to wave 4, they spent half the case on repeats from the previous wave including two that were packed twice in wave 3.

I disagree. fans haven't been whining about less core characters unless they are absolutely awesome, they have been whining about less core characters. so Hasbro listened. Why should Hasbro have thought this figure would be any different?

and I disagree about arctic Destro. had we been released minimally like SS or POC wave 4 Destro, the same people criticizing Hasbro for the figure being a peg warmer would be criticizing Hasbro for short-packing such an awesome figure and not knowing we have been clamoring for an arctic Destro for years. we want what we can't find and then say that figure we can't find is the most awesomest in the world, and conversely the figure that is easy to find is the worst.

thairestauranteur
01-11-2012, 01:29 PM
How many decheddared cases are on that end cap anyway? Sheesh. They get something totaling at least 20 cases and my Dodge City store cannot even get one case!

Hasbro distribution is lacking on so many levels.

I will proctor an explanation for all of the hazard vipers and whatnot. Army builders. If I had to hedge a bet, it has to be for army building purposes.

Still, there is not any credible explanation as to why they make some figures a case figure like the new Storm Shadow.

Again, this just goes to show that even if your Wally World is not stocked, someone elses store has over 20 pillaged cases on clearance for $5!

If you can't make it to that store, do what I have resorted to doing.

Ebay.

Troynos
01-11-2012, 01:29 PM
The lack of product on the shelf is NOT a popularity issue.....

Of course it's a popularity issue.

The line isn't popular like it used to be, that translates to less sales in retail.

If the line was popular, there would be plenty on the shelves.


We'll see plenty on the shelves of the first couple waves of Retaliation. We'll have to hope that the Retaliation toys are popular so that they sell and the later waves come out.

CrimsonGuard101
01-11-2012, 01:31 PM
and I disagree about arctic Destro. had we been released minimally like SS or POC wave 4 Destro, the same people criticizing Hasbro for the figure being a peg warmer would be criticizing Hasbro for short-packing such an awesome figure and not knowing we have been clamoring for an arctic Destro for years. we want what we can't find and then say that figure we can't find is the most awesomest in the world, and conversely the figure that is easy to find is the worst.

This is the keynote of the debate....

CrimsonGuard101
01-11-2012, 01:42 PM
Of course it's a popularity issue.

The line isn't popular like it used to be, that translates to less sales in retail.

If the line was popular, there would be plenty on the shelves.


We'll see plenty on the shelves of the first couple waves of Retaliation. We'll have to hope that the Retaliation toys are popular so that they sell and the later waves come out.

But in this example it is not popularity putting it on the shelf either...its a movie line in anticipation of hopeful popularity...there is no media tie in to make Joe popular...they need both a renegades cartoon and a resolute cartoon simultanouesly...or some all mighty piece of work that can heal and unify this community or it will never be popualr for more then 20 seconds...

Troynos
01-11-2012, 01:52 PM
But in this example it is not popularity putting it on the shelf either...its a movie line in anticipation of hopeful popularity...there is no media tie in to make Joe popular...they need both a renegades cartoon and a resolute cartoon simultanouesly...or some all mighty piece of work that can heal and unify this community or it will never be popualr for more then 20 seconds...

The example of Retaliation is "movie line in anticipation of hopeful popularity".

But if the Joe line itself was popular then the presence on the retail shelves would be better to begin with, without a movie adding to it, especially during times like this with no cartoon or movie to "push" the product.

Healing this community has no bearing on the sales of Joe for Hasbro. What will affect the sales is a cartoon that appeals to the largest demographic out there: kids.

jwmagick
01-11-2012, 01:58 PM
The example of Retaliation is "movie line in anticipation of hopeful popularity".

But if the Joe line itself was popular then the presence on the retail shelves would be better to begin with, without a movie adding to it.

Healing this community has no bearing on the sales of Joe for Hasbro. What will affect the sales is a cartoon that appeals to the largest demographic out there: kids.

And by that we would need a cartoon on a very accessible channel with constant advertisements during it and adjoining shows where both Joe and Cobra develop some type of deployable drones that pop open like Beyblade.

My local WM has moved out stock to a huge clearance section, still providing pegs for Joe figures but the vehicles were clearanced. Yet they still have pallets of that Beyblade mess left in overstock. I always see kids looking through Beyblade toys instead of Joe, TFs, Marvel, and even Star Wars.

CrimsonGuard101
01-11-2012, 02:00 PM
The example of Retaliation is "movie line in anticipation of hopeful popularity".

But if the Joe line itself was popular then the presence on the retail shelves would be better to begin with, without a movie adding to it, especially during times like this with no cartoon or movie to "push" the product.

Healing this community has no bearing on the sales of Joe for Hasbro. What will affect the sales is a cartoon that appeals to the largest demographic out there: kids.

If the Joe brand was so unpopular as you say there would be no movie to begin with...and that is what a movie or cartoon is for..to sell the merchandise...they are failing in that in non movie years...

You have to have a large sustaining agreeable focal point to sell these toys to both colelctors/fans and those run of th emill kids out there...and they have yet to find that make up

Troynos
01-11-2012, 02:06 PM
If the Joe brand was so unpopular as you say there would be no movie to begin with...

Where did I say it was unpopular? I said it wasn't popular enough to sustain good sales through non-movie/cartoon periods. That much is obvious.

Joe is, and always will (most likely), have some level of popularity just due to the name (lots of people recognize the name and remember playing with them as kids even if they don't have our level of love for the property) and the sales that we do generate.

Attempting a Joe movie was a no-brainer after the Transformers movie was such a hit. Paramount and Hasbro were probably looking for properties to mine to try and hit the Transformers mark (successful movie and toyline). G.I. Joe was a natural fit, especially after the 25th brought some renewed interest in the line.

Troynos
01-11-2012, 02:06 PM
And by that we would need a cartoon on a very accessible channel with constant advertisements during it and adjoining shows where both Joe and Cobra develop some type of deployable drones that pop open like Beyblade.

Doing something like that may be the way it has to go.

youdoitimbusy
01-11-2012, 02:08 PM
I dont necessarily think Hasbro played it right. Sure there are a lot of upset people, but itll keep the secondary market alive. This is a good thing for collectors. With that said, there was already an anticipation for there being a shortfall of wave 4 due to a late December release. If this should teach us anything its that you should probably pre-order multiple sets of the last waves so you can turn a dollar on Hasbros decisions. Im not saying its right, but lets use some common sense people.

gunslingercbr
01-11-2012, 02:10 PM
or some all mighty piece of work that can heal and unify this community or it will never be popualr for more then 20 seconds...

no, the community is irrelevant and this thread is a shining example of why.

one, we can't sustain the line, so we shouldn't be catered to.

secondly, we have no idea what we are talking about. we claim that sales are bad because Hasbro doesn't release enough army builders and there are too many individual characters, so when they release army builders at the expense of individual characters we complain the problem is that army builders clog the pegs and we can't find individual characters.

what Hasbro has to do is what they are always trying to do -- create interest with kids.

jwmagick
01-11-2012, 02:15 PM
Doing something like that may be the way it has to go.

I fear you are right, but the idea still makes me cringe just because those cartoons are always so painfully over the top.

TheRealDubya
01-11-2012, 02:20 PM
gunslingercbr][/B] and I disagree about arctic Destro. had we been released minimally like SS or POC wave 4 Destro, the same people criticizing Hasbro for the figure being a peg warmer would be criticizing Hasbro for short-packing such an awesome figure and not knowing we have been clamoring for an arctic Destro for years. we want what we can't find and then say that figure we can't find is the most awesomest in the world, and conversely the figure that is easy to find is the worst.

This is the keynote of the debate....

I agree. There's a psychological state that is quite possibly unique to a small group of adult men who buy toys - compounding resentment through overfamiliarity.

Many of us visit the same store, or set of stores, numerous times a week, or on a week-to-week basis. New stock comes in, we buy what we want, others do the same. The stores restock depending on their inventory. Eventually, there will emerge a set of figures that don't appeal to all buyers, who will "peg warm."

There's a finite amount of product released in a calendar year, and it's simply not realistic that, week-in-and-week-out new items will continue to emerge to refresh the aisle experience - and for the vast majority of shoppers, this isn't even close to an issue. However, if you're patrolling that aisle with great frequency, the stagnant experience will possibly, over time, come to annoy you. The only other group that might be affected by this phenomenon are the store's employees.

Now, not having access to the inventory system for "our" stores, the most logical method for checking what's actually on-shelf is a visit to the store. A great majority of the time (depending on frequency of visits) we will not find new items.

So over time, with repeated dissapointments (however illogical that dissapointment may be, since it cannot be expected that new stock will appear more than say, once a month) the stagnation of the store inventory begins to deprecate our impression of whatever pieces aren't "selling through", which now become the focus of our resentment and disappointment. Figures which at one time excited us become reviled through overfamiliarity and "blame." Even the copies in our own collections, purchased months and years before, assume the stink of the "retail dud" and we might discard or sell them.

Then the reverse complex occurs when new stock -- any new stock -- arrives and we find ourselves happily purchasing figures from our focus brands or even brands we don't collect that we ordinarily would never buy. Original Trilogy Star Wars fans buying Prequel figures; Indiana Jones fans buying Mutt Williams figures; GI Joe fans buying action feature, Whirlwind Snake Eyes figures or repainted Dusty figures with repainted Rockslide vehicles.

And this isn't a problem for anyone but a tiny group of people. Vocal, but tiny. The vast majority of the money taken in by Hasbro, Inc. has nothing to do with any person on this site, Rebelscum or any of the other "fan" forums. Hasbro's business model works just great for everyone who it needs to work for, in order for Hasbro , Inc. to stay in business (and to demonstrate growth.)

Troynos
01-11-2012, 02:23 PM
I fear you are right, but the idea still makes me cringe just because those cartoons are always so painfully over the top.

Who says the cartoon has to be like those other (which are painful to watch)?

I can see a way to make a Joe cartoon, with the Joes/Cobras using drones, that could appeal to kids and adults. It wouldn't be that hard.

Of course, most people here would bitch no matter how good it might be, because it's not their vision of Joe.

I could even live with little "battle" drones appearing with the figures. The tank accessory that came with RoC Ripcord was pretty damn cool.

jwmagick
01-11-2012, 02:31 PM
Who says the cartoon has to be like those other (which are painful to watch)?

I can see a way to make a Joe cartoon, with the Joes/Cobras using drones, that could appeal to kids and adults. It wouldn't be that hard.

Of course, most people here would bitch no matter how good it might be, because it's not their vision of Joe.

I could even live with little "battle" drones appearing with the figures. The tank accessory that came with RoC Ripcord was pretty damn cool.

Actually, that could work extremely well. Cobra figures could come with "snake eggs" that roll and "hatch" open to reveal some kind of animal drone. The Joes respond with their own drones that come with figures. The drones could be like the original minicon drones from the 80s TFs. Pretty much the same molds but in different colors randomly packaged with figures.

Yes. I'm starting to like that idea. I would still hope the show would be on the same level as Renegades or Resolute, but then throw in the collectible drone gimmick to appeal to kids.

Troynos
01-11-2012, 02:35 PM
Actually, that could work extremely well. Cobra figures could come with "snake eggs" that roll and "hatch" open to reveal some kind of animal drone. The Joes respond with their own drones that come with figures. The drones could be like the original minicon drones from the 80s TFs. Pretty much the same molds but in different colors randomly packaged with figures.

Yes. I'm starting to like that idea. I would still hope the show would be on the same level as Renegades or Resolute, but then throw in the collectible drone gimmick to appeal to kids.

I'm thinking more along the lines of smaller Pac Rat type things, and making them unique for the unique characters.

Shipwreck's drone is a mini-sub/underwater bomb disposal or something.

Alpine has a drone that can climb mountains and serve as fire support well climbing.

Roadblock's is a mobile mini-gun kind of thing.

Cobra Vipers could have 3 or 4 different ones (meaning could buy 3 or 4 different Vipers and get the different drones): machine gun, mini-cannon, flamethrower, ???.

Breaker's could be a mobile satellite dish.

CrimsonGuard101
01-11-2012, 02:36 PM
Who says the cartoon has to be like those other (which are painful to watch)?

I can see a way to make a Joe cartoon, with the Joes/Cobras using drones, that could appeal to kids and adults. It wouldn't be that hard.

Of course, most people here would bitch no matter how good it might be, because it's not their vision of Joe.

I could even live with little "battle" drones appearing with the figures. The tank accessory that came with RoC Ripcord was pretty damn cool.

The mini hiss tank with POC Chase CC was a huge missed opprtunity...i love that little thing...I wish the big versions had the same paint job...

Troynos
01-11-2012, 02:39 PM
The mini hiss tank with POC Chase CC was a huge missed opprtunity...i love that little thing...I wish the big versions had the same paint job...

It actually was. Small drones along those lines, that could appeal to us adult collectors, and have the battle aspects that appeal to the kids could really work.

TheRealDubya
01-11-2012, 02:40 PM
It actually was. Small drones along those lines, that could appeal to us adult collectors, and have the battle aspects that appeal to the kids could really work.

Yeah. I fear that pack-ins are going the way of the dodo.

CrimsonGuard101
01-11-2012, 02:43 PM
Yeah. I fear that pack-ins are going the way of the dodo.

Cool ones yes like the mini hiss, but Spring loaded unpainted atrocities will make a comabck for movie lines...they awlays do...and I hope they dont for retaliation...but you will get 1 pistol and a springloaded launcher for the new 11.99 priced singled carded figures of our future lol..i can see it now

jwmagick
01-11-2012, 02:44 PM
I'm thinking more along the lines of smaller Pac Rat type things, and making them unique for the unique characters.

Shipwreck's drone is a mini-sub/underwater bomb disposal or something.

Alpine has a drone that can climb mountains and serve as fire support well climbing.

Roadblock's is a mobile mini-gun kind of thing.

Cobra Vipers could have 3 or 4 different ones (meaning could buy 3 or 4 different Vipers and get the different drones): machine gun, mini-cannon, flamethrower, ???.

Breaker's could be a mobile satellite dish.

That would be my preference too. But if they have to revamp to try to be more appealing to kids, then they might have to go with something similar to the other lines to compete. At least at first, and then move one to more specific/intricate drones that might appeal to us too.

But, of course, that would require Hasbro to back a Joe cartoon for multiple seasons to really establish a good following.

...heaven forbid.

jwmagick
01-11-2012, 02:48 PM
Cool ones yes like the mini hiss, but Spring loaded unpainted atrocities will make a comabck for movie lines...they awlays do...and I hope they dont for retaliation...but you will get 1 pistol and a springloaded launcher for the new 11.99 priced singled carded figures of our future lol..i can see it now

Seriously. Marvel, Captain America, and Star Wars figs didn't come with that crap. Thor figs did come with an oversized hammer or shield weapon.

Troynos
01-11-2012, 02:51 PM
Seriously. Marvel, Captain America, and Star Wars figs didn't come with that crap. Thor figs did come with an oversized hammer or shield weapon.

Captain America did, on some of the figures. Captain Britain had a spring loaded launcher. A couple of the Cap's had action features in the shields.

CrimsonGuard101
01-11-2012, 02:52 PM
Seriously. Marvel, Captain America, and Star Wars figs didn't come with that crap. Thor figs did come with an oversized hammer or shield weapon.

Single Carded Captain America didnt, but deluxe sure did lol I got a few of my brothers newphew loves to shot his younger brother with so apparently they work for th sub 3+ range kids (just the shooting item, he coudl carfless for the actual figure)...guess thats why the box suggest 4+ lol cause by then all they want is an IPAD and nitendo DS and a blackbery with an e-trade app...

Akunin
01-11-2012, 03:00 PM
Looks like a distribution problem to me. Feel free to send those my way. Have yet to see a 30th trooper in the wild

SolidSnakeEyes
01-11-2012, 03:04 PM
I agree. There's a psychological state that is quite possibly unique to a small group of adult men who buy toys - compounding resentment through overfamiliarity.

Many of us visit the same store, or set of stores, numerous times a week, or on a week-to-week basis. New stock comes in, we buy what we want, others do the same. The stores restock depending on their inventory. Eventually, there will emerge a set of figures that don't appeal to all buyers, who will "peg warm."

There's a finite amount of product released in a calendar year, and it's simply not realistic that, week-in-and-week-out new items will continue to emerge to refresh the aisle experience - and for the vast majority of shoppers, this isn't even close to an issue. However, if you're patrolling that aisle with great frequency, the stagnant experience will possibly, over time, come to annoy you. The only other group that might be affected by this phenomenon are the store's employees.

Now, not having access to the inventory system for "our" stores, the most logical method for checking what's actually on-shelf is a visit to the store. A great majority of the time (depending on frequency of visits) we will not find new items.

So over time, with repeated dissapointments (however illogical that dissapointment may be, since it cannot be expected that new stock will appear more than say, once a month) the stagnation of the store inventory begins to deprecate our impression of whatever pieces aren't "selling through", which now become the focus of our resentment and disappointment. Figures which at one time excited us become reviled through overfamiliarity and "blame." Even the copies in our own collections, purchased months and years before, assume the stink of the "retail dud" and we might discard or sell them.

Then the reverse complex occurs when new stock -- any new stock -- arrives and we find ourselves happily purchasing figures from our focus brands or even brands we don't collect that we ordinarily would never buy. Original Trilogy Star Wars fans buying Prequel figures; Indiana Jones fans buying Mutt Williams figures; GI Joe fans buying action feature, Whirlwind Snake Eyes figures or repainted Dusty figures with repainted Rockslide vehicles.

And this isn't a problem for anyone but a tiny group of people. Vocal, but tiny. The vast majority of the money taken in by Hasbro, Inc. has nothing to do with any person on this site, Rebelscum or any of the other "fan" forums. Hasbro's business model works just great for everyone who it needs to work for, in order for Hasbro , Inc. to stay in business (and to demonstrate growth.)

My favorite post of the year.

Troynos
01-11-2012, 03:19 PM
Dammit.. all this talk about drones has got my creative juices stirring...

G.I. Joe: Drone Wars

coreystinson
01-11-2012, 04:05 PM
if arctic Destro was packed one per case people would be complaining about how Hasbro should have packed him more and doesn't know what they are doing. fans whine about too many Storm Shadows and when Hasbro doesn't saturate the market with him, they complain about it.

fact is, no matter what figure saw a small release, the fans were going to complain that that was the figure that should have been packed 6 per case.

I disagree, there are some figures that deserve to see less pack-out, and yes doing so will automatically enhance demand for them and, by virtue of numbers, make them slightly more rare. But, a figure like Storm Shadow was clearly superb and under-released compared to, say, regular Cobra Trooper (which appeared in at least three case assortments) or the rather boring Renegades Ripcord, which appeared in two case assortments.

It is true that it is not possible to get it exactly right by virtue of the reality that scarcity creates (occasionally somewhat artificial) demand, but they do sometimes make obvious missteps and this last wave case was an example of that.

Zartanman
01-11-2012, 04:34 PM
All I know is if I had money I'd be driving to Atlanta right now to clear out all those figures. Why don't they move them across the Florida border? LOL

DR.Sin
01-11-2012, 04:40 PM
HOLY !$%&in Shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't read through all the pages. I am just responding to the first pages pics of the display at Walmart. Nobody knows how to order in my whole area. If we get cases around here, its like one per store every other month, if that. As soon as those cases hit its like people were starving for food. I would shit my pants if I saw that display at my Walmart. I may not find a Storm Shadow there, but at least I would get troop builders for cheap.

Raginspoon
01-11-2012, 05:00 PM
For $5 I would be buying up all of those cobra troopers.

Beckley
01-11-2012, 05:15 PM
For $5 I would be buying up all of those cobra troopers.

Hell yeah.
If I saw this display I would tear into it.

Colder Soldier
01-11-2012, 05:22 PM
Okay. It's official. Most of us would buy all the Cobra Troopers there.

TheRealDubya
01-11-2012, 05:39 PM
I disagree, there are some figures that deserve to see less pack-out, and yes doing so will automatically enhance demand for them and, by virtue of numbers, make them slightly more rare. But, a figure like Storm Shadow was clearly superb and under-released compared to, say, regular Cobra Trooper (which appeared in at least three case assortments) or the rather boring Renegades Ripcord, which appeared in two case assortments.

While I agree with Gunslinger's point, I also agree with this statement - there seems to be a certain lack of intuition on Hasbro's part in regards to some of these figures.

Just because previous versions of Storm Shadow were shitty (Thunder Slice/Tsunami Kick/Whateverthefuckitwas which, to be fair, sold out around here) and/or were overproduced/ordered, doesn't mean the crowining achievement of 4" action figures should get the distribution shaft.

Okay. It's official. Most of us would buy all the Cobra Troopers there.

Goddamnit. Where's the like button.

Xenos
01-11-2012, 06:23 PM
While I agree with Gunslinger's point, I also agree with this statement - there seems to be a certain lack of intuition on Hasbro's part in regards to some of these figures.

Just because previous versions of Storm Shadow were shitty (Thunder Slice/Tsunami Kick/Whateverthefuckitwas which, to be fair, sold out around here) and/or were overproduced/ordered, doesn't mean the crowining achievement of 4" action figures should get the distribution shaft.


I agree that it was weird that they put Tunnel Rat/Ripcord in the wave 4 case instead of SS seeing as though SS would be more likely to sell multiples to people, but other then that one figure, I have a hard time finding much fault with the pack-outs Hasbro chose for the 30th Anniversary line, and PoC.