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Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 11:19 AM
Generals Joes had the poor taste to post another list of mine:

Ten Things that G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra Did Right a list by Monte | Generals Joes - A blog about the importance (or unimportance) of little plastic men (http://generalsjoes.com/2011/12/19/ten-things-that-g-i-joe-the-rise-of-cobra-did-right-a-list-by-monte/)

XAMOT
12-19-2011, 11:38 AM
10. They still made Snake Eyes look like a Bad Ass.

OSOK
12-19-2011, 11:38 AM
what a list

MJjoe4life
12-19-2011, 11:42 AM
It was a good list, thanks.

spot138
12-19-2011, 11:44 AM
I'd agree with #8: The Doctor

He realy was fun to watch - for me he made the movie. He was ridiculously over the top, and I appreciate that. Its like the actor knew how crappy the movie was going to be and just went for broke.

krooklyn
12-19-2011, 11:53 AM
Generals Joes had the poor taste to post another list of mine:

Ten Things that G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra Did Right a list by Monte | Generals Joes - A blog about the importance (or unimportance) of little plastic men (http://generalsjoes.com/2011/12/19/ten-things-that-g-i-joe-the-rise-of-cobra-did-right-a-list-by-monte/)

"poor taste"? They gave you credit for it. Anyway, I totally agree with the list. Sommers tried to give us a "GI Joe" film. I did love the prologue.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 11:57 AM
"poor taste"? They gave you credit for it.

I was just being self-deprecating... and Justin-deprecating, which is always fun.

krooklyn
12-19-2011, 12:04 PM
I was just being self-deprecating... and Justin-deprecating, which is always fun.

Oh, ok. LOL!!!

drunknmunky
12-19-2011, 12:07 PM
Generals Joes had the poor taste to post another list of mine:

Ten Things that G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra Did Right a list by Monte | Generals Joes - A blog about the importance (or unimportance) of little plastic men (http://generalsjoes.com/2011/12/19/ten-things-that-g-i-joe-the-rise-of-cobra-did-right-a-list-by-monte/)

Thanks for the list and thanks to General's Joes for posting it. I'm a big RoC fan and watched it for entertainment, not a GI Joe history lesson. It had a storyline straight out of the comics. But unfortunately there's tons of RoC haters out there. Apparently if The Rock and Bruce Willis had been in it then the others flaws would have been overlooked and everyone would love it.

OSOK
12-19-2011, 12:17 PM
#10: After almost 2 hours, it finally ended

jogunwarrior
12-19-2011, 12:20 PM
Great write up! I would have trouble picking out five let alone nine or ten, but I definitely see your point with each entry.

I can agree with number six and seven. I thought Rachel Nichols was a capable Scarlett, though hindered by and Arnold Vosloo is always bad ass...just watch John Woo's Hard Target.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 12:24 PM
Apparently if The Rock and Bruce Willis had been in it then the others flaws would have been overlooked and everyone would love it.

To be fair... you know that scene in Being John Malkovich wherein Malkovich enters the portal into himself, and suddenly everyone in the world looks like Malkovich?

Well, if you could digitally replace every actor and actress from Rise of Cobra with The Rock, that'd probably be more entertaining than the original version of the film.

redx24
12-19-2011, 12:26 PM
wasnt a perfect movie but i enjoyed it. then again things i hated others loved so whatever.
hope we get a "YOJOE mutherfucker" from Mr. willis cause that would be... EPIC!!

drunknmunky
12-19-2011, 12:34 PM
To be fair... you know that scene in Being John Malkovich wherein Malkovich enters the portal into himself, and suddenly everyone in the world looks like Malkovich?

Well, if you could digitally replace every actor and actress from Rise of Cobra with The Rock, that'd probably be more entertaining than the original version of the film.

I get what you're saying. My problem is with people who say RoC sucks but give reasons like ” Cobra Commander's mask was horrible.” Did that 2 seconds he had it on really ruin the movie? Or the people that say ” Retaliation will be better because it has the Rock and Bruce Willis!” They're great actors but they alone can't make a great movie. Tooth Fairy and Cop Out come to mind. I would love to be able to photoshop The Rock's face over Tatum and Bruce Willis over... Um Wayans I guess, just to see if it makes the movie more popular.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 12:34 PM
Yeah, I hear you. People dwell on the most meaningless minutiae.

darthmaul1
12-19-2011, 12:35 PM
That was a good list, I still think the movie did everything right! Except for the CC mask. But I do have one question, what is the guy on about with snake eyes defying gravity at the ambush scene? He was on a rope or zip line thing. He just didn't jump out of the plane with nothing.

Griff
12-19-2011, 12:50 PM
the only thing that movie did right was END!

Troynos
12-19-2011, 12:59 PM
The best thing the movie did was: a great Zartan.

I have never liked the look of Zartan. It doesn't fit a master of disguise. A master of disguise should be bland and boring in his normal look, be plain, be able to turn into anyone else at a moment's notice.

ARAH Zartan was not that. RoC Zartan was.

Jay West
12-19-2011, 01:05 PM
Please never send me to a blog with the word "acquiesce" in it again.

Kidding. I agree with the list. Also, I will say it proudly- I liked ROC. I've read much worse Joe comics and seen much worse Joe toons.

fireflyguy
12-19-2011, 01:25 PM
I agree for sure about the violence part. It's a catch 22. You want to make it entertaining for adults, but you don't necessarily want your kids to see it. At least I don't want my kids to see it yet. It's got some scenes I don't think my kids are ready for and some language I don't want them hearing just yet.

I wouldn't say I'm an apologist for RoC, but I've always thought it was an okay movie. The list did have some deep thought for its development, and I appreciate that.

bluddmajor
12-19-2011, 01:30 PM
I think the main problem with ROC was the lack of adherence to the aesthetic of Gi JOE, which, it being a TOY franchise, is a HUGE part of the mystic and lore. The characters they got right, namely Storm Shadow, Baroness (sans accent) ,Snake Eyes and Scarelett work primarily because they LOOK the part, we recognize who they are and we root for them because of that. The Doctor was not a bad character at all, but calling him Cobra Commander was a such a fatal incomprehensible flaw, that it negated all else cool about him. I would have been FINE as him being Dr. Mindbender, because even the original's Sunbow outfit stretches to the farthest limits of taste and acceptibility (S+M Circus Freak? cool, but wouldnt work with mainstream audiences at all) The Neo Vipers would have been fine as well, as LONG AS we had some boys in blue and a Crimson Guard thrown in for good measure. I would have had the Neos brought in as a secret weapon something, primarily in the artic scenes. Hell, I would have just made them snow serpents! Anyway, ROC would have been saved if there was just more bones thrown our way in that department, which it looks like Retaliation is doing..

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 01:32 PM
But I do have one question, what is the guy on about with snake eyes defying gravity at the ambush scene? He was on a rope or zip line thing. He just didn't jump out of the plane with nothing.

True, but the scene was still constructed in a manner which totally abandoned any consideration of gravity. See the first Spider-Man movie and compare it to the treetop battle in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and you might get some sense of what I'm complaining about; Snake Eyes and Scarlet both use ziplines, sure, but their nearly supernatural expertise with said ziplines is about as implausible as Batman managing to slide the giant vault back into the hole in the building in Batman Forever.

I hate cartoony action in live-action films, 'cause it detracts from the whole point, which is "Holy crap, I am watching Character X in live-action!"

A master of disguise should be bland and boring in his normal look, be plain, be able to turn into anyone else at a moment's notice.

ARAH Zartan was not that. RoC Zartan was.

That's a very interesting point, actually.

I'm gonna dispute it, though. 'Cause see, if Rise of Cobra had been a more realistic take on the property, like Batman Begins, then that approach would be fine. But the same movie that features an ostensibly more realistic aesthetic for its master of disguise also has his head bubbling up and morphing like a balloon after he's injected with nanomites that allow his face to shapeshift.

GI Guppy the third
12-19-2011, 01:36 PM
I never realized until watching that scene again, how much the drop ship acts like the combine drop ships from Half-Life 2.

I know there's plenty of differences but there's not many things out there that can turn on a dime and shoot down your missiles. That's always frustrating.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 01:37 PM
I think the main problem with ROC was the lack of adherence to the aesthetic of Gi JOE, which, it being a TOY franchise, is a HUGE part of the mystic and lore.

I agree with this. I didn't mind all the black outfits on the figures, 'cause I can just lazily kitbash them into various night ops types.

But as a vehicle to introduce the brand to a new generation, yeah, there should have been more diversity to the color palette in the film.

As for the Neo Vipers (and why are they "neo" when they're the first batch of Vipers in the movie?!?), I think the ones in the movie should have looked like the Crimson repaint they released. That alone would have helped.

But yeah, just some green or brown trim on the Reactive Armor to give it the military vibe would have been nice.

Troynos
12-19-2011, 01:39 PM
That's a very interesting point, actually.

I'm gonna dispute it, though. 'Cause see, if Rise of Cobra had been a more realistic take on the property, like Batman Begins, then that approach would be fine. But the same movie that features an ostensibly more realistic aesthetic for its master of disguise also has his head bubbling up and morphing like a balloon after he's injected with nanomites that allow his face to shapeshift.

Can't dispute an opinion, lol.


Prior to the nanomites he was a mimic, which means he had to be bland because he had to adapt his mannerisms (walk, accent, etc..) to match the person he was he was mimicing.

All the nanomites did was make a more permenant physical change.

Could a flamboyant Zartan have done the same thing? Sure. But Voosloo's Zartan was the best rendition yet.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 01:47 PM
Voosloo's Zartan was the best rendition yet.

I hate to derail a thread, but it's my thread, so screw it:

What did you think of Mack Kuhr's portrayal of Zartan in Operation Red Retrieval?

Cobra80
12-19-2011, 01:50 PM
I get what you're saying. My problem is with people who say RoC sucks but give reasons like ” Cobra Commander's mask was horrible.” Did that 2 seconds he had it on really ruin the movie? Or the people that say ” Retaliation will be better because it has the Rock and Bruce Willis!” They're great actors but they alone can't make a great movie. Tooth Fairy and Cop Out come to mind. I would love to be able to photoshop The Rock's face over Tatum and Bruce Willis over... Um Wayans I guess, just to see if it makes the movie more popular.

So u have a problem with me saying CC mask was horrible do ya. So be it. Yes the mask and costume was a Joke. I get it man you are totally infatuated with the Rise of Crap. More power to you. Yes the CC mask and costume bugged me who cares. I did NOT like the movie and you did.
Why can't you leave it at that instead of saying stuff about the ROC "haters." IMO Rise of Crap would have been better if you made a helmet and costume more in tune with CC, threw out the Duke Baroness CC triangle and castes Aaron Eckhart as Duke.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Aaron Eckhart as Hawk, maybe, but not Duke. He's a bit too old to build a movie franchise around when the producers want a pretty boy.

Also, you keep repeating "Rise of Crap, Rise of Crap, Rise of Crap" in various threads, and I gotta tell ya, it's not catching on. You're starting to come across like John Cena saying "CM Sucks". It's just getting awkward.

Jmacq1
12-19-2011, 02:02 PM
I agree for sure about the violence part. It's a catch 22. You want to make it entertaining for adults, but you don't necessarily want your kids to see it. At least I don't want my kids to see it yet. It's got some scenes I don't think my kids are ready for and some language I don't want them hearing just yet.

I wouldn't say I'm an apologist for RoC, but I've always thought it was an okay movie. The list did have some deep thought for its development, and I appreciate that.

Yeah, the violence in RoC was a very odd duck. Me personally? I think a few things could have been toned down and it still would have been entertaining enough for adults and kids alike. Specifically:

I think you could do without the eye-popping, exploding-head Vipers/Neo Vipers (even if such things were done as non-graphically as possible).

The Neo-Viper running around on fire was borderline. Not graphic, and illustrated the "impervious to pain" nature of the Neo Vipers, but still kind of a horrifying image for a kid.

Storm-Shadow getting sliced up in his final battle with Snake-Eyes seemed a little...out of place. Maybe because it seemed like it was the only part in an otherwise rather violent film where red blood was shown.

PS: Neo Vipers weren't the first Vipers. The Vipers in the initial attack/ambush at the beginning of the film were "Viper Commandos" and actually were a similar, yet different design from the Neo-Vipers.

GI Guppy the third
12-19-2011, 02:02 PM
I think my main issue is some of the character inconsistencies that muddled a lot of the villain motivations. Baroness, Destro, and Rex all had these.

For someone who was apparently brainwashed, Baroness seemed to have a soft side at odd times. This switching from ruthless to this caring double agent wife was a little too inconsistent. I think it's the main reason I'm less forgiving for the strange nanomite brainwashing her character went through.

The origin of the Destro mask muddled his character. A family that seemed to maintain great wealth and prosperity seems like a family without the need to seek vengence for something done 500 years ago. I think if they would have kept his motives seeded in creating chaos to benefit himself as a war profiteer, it would have been fine. Especially since, it would have created an added division between Destro plans and Rex's hidden goals later on in the film since they would have had separate motivations. That scene could have worked to show the mask as more of an heirloom that revisits, but the foretelling of the clan seeking vengeance against the world added a suggestion that didn't need to be there. We just needed to know it's a clan that knows weapons and how to profit and gain power off of those weapons to give us his motivations towards starting another WW.

Rex was a tough one because they showed him as this innocent nerdy guy but then showed a slight dark side right before he's presumably killed off. Is he subconsciously angry at Duke and this leads him to use the nanos for dark purposes? or was he naturally going to advance this technology to this point because of the hidden dark side? Either way, the scripting is lacking and doesn't know what it wants Rex to be.

I'm also a little put off by the fact every disfigured character in the line, but SE, has to be a villain, or turned into a villain. It's a poor message during a time of war with a lot of vets coming back who have been disfigured through combat. I know SE is but he always is covered up and for this movie specifically, it's never shown or mentioned why they never show his face.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 02:09 PM
Rex was a tough one because they showed him as this innocent nerdy guy but then showed a slight dark side right before he's presumably killed off. Is he subconsciously angry at Duke and this leads him to use the nanos for dark purposes?

Yeah, that bugged me, too. I never understood what I was supposed to take away from the film, where his character is concerned; is he so angry at getting blown up that he hates Duke and wants to destroy the world, or did the things he saw down in that bunker expose too much of the bad in the world for him to be able to maintain his goodness? (What did he see? I don't even remember. Wasn't it just, like, some tech crap?).

Your point about disfigured people being villains is a good one, too. Kind of a crappy message, even if it is a subtle one.

Jmacq1
12-19-2011, 02:16 PM
Yes, while Rex was lots of fun as the Doctor and Cobra Commander's mask didn't bother me either way, his motivation for turning all EEEEEEEEvil was very poorly established and portrayed. It seemed like he went into the bunker and saw Mindbender's Nano-mite technology and instantly became uber-obsessed with it or something, and that was that.

The sad part is you could've actually gone for some depth there and portray Rex as a guy that at least started out wanting to make the world a better place, but grew tired of government interference and "red tape" holding him back. Then eventually just snapped after the whole "almost getting blown up" bit.

Though I -will- say that they leave the door open for Cobra Commander simply to have lost his marbles due to Mindbender injecting him with Nanomites after the explosion. Sadly, that's still a very weak explanation, and actually detracts from the Commander as a character.

In all truth, I kinda find myself wondering if the Cobra Commander we get in Retaliation might not actually be Rex....

darthmaul1
12-19-2011, 02:16 PM
True, but the scene was still constructed in a manner which totally abandoned any consideration of gravity. See the first Spider-Man movie and compare it to the treetop battle in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and you might get some sense of what I'm complaining about; Snake Eyes and Scarlet both use ziplines, sure, but their nearly supernatural expertise with said ziplines is about as implausible as Batman managing to slide the giant vault back into the hole in the building in Batman Forever.

I hate cartoony action in live-action films, 'cause it detracts from the whole point, which is "Holy crap, I am watching Character X in live-action!"



That's a very interesting point, actually.

I'm gonna dispute it, though. 'Cause see, if Rise of Cobra had been a more realistic take on the property, like Batman Begins, then that approach would be fine. But the same movie that features an ostensibly more realistic aesthetic for its master of disguise also has his head bubbling up and morphing like a balloon after he's injected with nanomites that allow his face to shapeshift.

Sorry I disagree. To me that scene was not defying gravity, if anything snakeyes in the paris chase was more defying gravity BUT by that point I was so into the film I totally bought it and loved. I was grinning ear to ear.
I don't think the cartoony action detracts from the film. The important thing is that the film is done is such a way that you can accept it which ROC did do for me. Other movies that failed on that level for me TF3 flight suit crap and fast five surviving a 100ft fall into a river and towing a huge safe through the city.

I had the impression that ROC had a realistic take on the property (as realistic as a movie based on a cartoon would allow).

And to the people that didn't like the uniforms cause they were very identifiable from character to character, I am glad they were the same or close to it. I wouldn't want every one on the team to be from the USA and have totally different uniforms like guys wearing sailor outfits and bright colors! This is the military not the circus.

Jmacq1
12-19-2011, 02:21 PM
And to the people that didn't like the uniforms cause they were very identifiable from character to character, I am glad they were the same or close to it. I wouldn't want every one on the team to be from the USA and have totally different uniforms like guys wearing sailor outfits and bright colors! This is the military not the circus.

The thing is, there's a LOT of middle ground between the two extremes of "everybody wears the same thing" and "It's the Village People with Guns!" Most longtime fans didn't have a hard time separating the characters, but they still would've preferred some more individual touches to the outfits.

JR0d28
12-19-2011, 02:22 PM
Dennis Quaid as HAWK

Great Actor and fit the bill.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 02:24 PM
I liked Quaid as Hawk well enough, but he was one more character who was just sort of... there.

They did nothing meaningful with him.

GI Guppy the third
12-19-2011, 02:33 PM
I liked Quaid as Hawk well enough, but he was one more character who was just sort of... there.

They did nothing meaningful with him.

I think it just didn't match the tough as nails character we grew up with. Hawk just smiled too much.

JR0d28
12-19-2011, 02:36 PM
I think it just didn't match the tough as nails character we grew up with. Hawk just smiled too much.

Yeah but Dennis Quaid did one bad ass thing Hawk never did....Blew up JAWS hahaha!!! Could not resist.

zx670
12-19-2011, 02:41 PM
Thanks for the list and thanks to General's Joes for posting it. I'm a big RoC fan and watched it for entertainment, not a GI Joe history lesson. It had a storyline straight out of the comics. But unfortunately there's tons of RoC haters out there. Apparently if The Rock and Bruce Willis had been in it then the others flaws would have been overlooked and everyone would love it.

Not sure I've read one person say the movie will be good just due to those two actors being in it.

I have never liked the look of Zartan. It doesn't fit a master of disguise. A master of disguise should be bland and boring in his normal look, be plain, be able to turn into anyone else at a moment's notice.

ARAH Zartan was not that. RoC Zartan was.

So...are you a Master of Master of Disguises?

I liked Quaid as Hawk well enough, but he was one more character who was just sort of... there.

They did nothing meaningful with him.

Agreed. Like most of the cast, nothing memorable about them really.

Yeah but Dennis Quaid did one bad ass thing Hawk never did....Blew up JAWS hahaha!!! Could not resist.

JAWS 3D at that.

GI Guppy the third
12-19-2011, 02:46 PM
Yeah but Dennis Quaid did one bad ass thing Hawk never did....Blew up JAWS hahaha!!! Could not resist.

Become the father of an asexual alien baby.

Fix Martin Short from the inside.

Join the majors late in his life.

JR0d28
12-19-2011, 02:47 PM
Become the father of an asexual alien baby.

Fix Martin Short from the inside.

Join the majors late in his life.

Oh yeah! forgot about Enemy Mine that was a freaky movie

gunslingercbr
12-19-2011, 02:48 PM
The only one I agree with completely is The Doctor. cool character and a good backstory for Cobra Commander which was executed perfectly by JGL.

the two I disagree with completely are the ambush scene and Rachel Nichols, and the two go hand in hand.

She was absolutely awful as Scarlett, and the ambush scene exemplifies why to a tee. in a cartoon action movie where every character is self-assured and courageous, and in a scene where Snake Eyes leaps out of a plane head first (though I do believe he was ninja fast-roping so it isn't that gravity-defyingly unbelievable) and Heavy Duty hangs out of a plane firing down below, our first glimpse at Scarlett has her terrified has she runs scared behind cover, and then as the Neo Viper approaches her to finish her off, whereas she should be confidently awaiting her arrow to swing around and kill him like any good action hero, she is actually scared again.

and you can't even rationalize it as depth to the character, because there simply is no depth to any of the characters in this movie. they are all cliches, and Nichols and Sommers failed in conveying Scarlett as an action character.

darthmaul1
12-19-2011, 03:25 PM
The thing is, there's a LOT of middle ground between the two extremes of "everybody wears the same thing" and "It's the Village People with Guns!" Most longtime fans didn't have a hard time separating the characters, but they still would've preferred some more individual touches to the outfits.

Funny you say village people cause I feel if they were wearing drastically different uniforms then it would of been the village people complete with a dorky sailor and sailor hat. The reason for the drastically different uniforms in the cartoon was so kids could distinguish between each character. But since we are older we can just look at their faces, Truthfully I don't know all the differences between all the characters just scarlet red hair, baroness black hair, and obviously snake, storm shadow, Cc and destro. Everyone else is kind of a blur!

ChaplainAsst
12-19-2011, 03:44 PM
Why this list is somewhat meaningless - no offense to the author - is because there are so MANY things wrong with this movie. Nine things doesn't outweigh the huge holes in the script, the scenes cut from the movie that actually would have helped it, the lack of real world physics, the failure to reach out to the fan base in any meaningful way except for small Easter eggs that Sommers may not have had a clue about, the wooden acting, the failure to transcend the original, the expensive and yet not amazing CGI, the poorly inserted backstories, the tacked on ending that made the whole reveal of CC and Destro meaningless, and so much, much more.

And what is so sad is that this movie was so much better than Revenge of the Fallen ...

Jay West
12-19-2011, 03:54 PM
Aaron Eckhart as Hawk, maybe, but not Duke. He's a bit too old to build a movie franchise around when the producers want a pretty boy.

.

Assuming there is no Hawk in GIJ 2, I think Eckhart would be a very logical and realistic re-cast of the part for GIJ 3 if there is a third and they want to bring Hawk back.

darthmaul1
12-19-2011, 04:10 PM
Why this list is somewhat meaningless - no offense to the author - is because there are so MANY things wrong with this movie. Nine things doesn't outweigh the huge holes in the script, the scenes cut from the movie that actually would have helped it, the lack of real world physics, the failure to reach out to the fan base in any meaningful way except for small Easter eggs that Sommers may not have had a clue about, the wooden acting, the failure to transcend the original, the expensive and yet not amazing CGI, the poorly inserted backstories, the tacked on ending that made the whole reveal of CC and Destro meaningless, and so much, much more.

And what is so sad is that this movie was so much better than Revenge of the Fallen ...

What holes in the script? And the lack of real world physics? It based on a comic/ cartoon!!! As long as they do it in a way that you can buy into it then it's good. Here is a question for you... Did u like the fast five movie with the rock?

Samh77
12-19-2011, 04:41 PM
Everyone has their own opinion but I think he is giving ROC way too much credit. Yea it was entertaining but you can also entertain a monkey if you wave a banana in his face. As a long Joe fan I think this movie failed miserably in almost every aspect. The opening sequence was great because it stuck to the source material. I immediately knew it was about Destro. Now let's talk about what was wrong about the film.
13. Bad special effect especially in Paris scene.
12. cobra commanders disgustingly bad Mask.
11. Zartan not having Australian accent and very unrecognizable.
10. Black generic uniforms. This is gi joe not black ops. Two different units of military.
9. Duke/Channing tatum.... Nuff said.
8. Ripcord/marlon waynes...... Nuff said!!
7 Baroness with American accent..... Ultimate fail!!
6. Baroness as Cobra Commander's sister.... Really???
5. General Hawk with Flint's Beret.
4. accelerator suits.
3. Snake eyes with rubber muscles and lips
2. Snake yes taking a vile of silence..... Seriously????
1. Detro being a scrawny business man type and having the nano mites create his metal mask witch defeats the purpose of the very beginning of the film.

Best part of the movie was with out a doubt The Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow fight scenes.

vapor
12-19-2011, 05:00 PM
roc was terrible on so many levels, i think its funny how people try and defend it, and its normally the guys who collect all the crap relm side of gi joe like sigma six or valor vs venom, those toy lines sucked ass and so did roc, the movie failed miserably, it embarassed the franchise and gave us a over extended hiatus all because everything about the line from the movie to the toys was shit. im sick of hearing people talk about it like it did something for us because it didnt do anything except screw up are toyline for way too long and even if retaliation does better, the toys are still going to suck for the most part because they are movie toys, period.

gunslingercbr
12-19-2011, 05:03 PM
Why this list is somewhat meaningless - no offense to the author - is because there are so MANY things wrong with this movie.
the movie being shit doesn't preclude that there are things that maybe it did right. in fact, the movie being shit but having things it did do right actually make the list more meaningful.

a list about things a brilliant movie did right is meaningless because everybody already knows it did them right.

gunslingercbr
12-19-2011, 05:04 PM
roc was terrible on so many levels, i think its funny how people try and defend it, and its normally the guys who collect all the crap relm side of gi joe like sigma six or valor vs venom, those toy lines sucked ass and so did roc, the movie failed miserably, it embarassed the franchise and gave us a over extended hiatus all because everything about the line from the movie to the toys was shit. im sick of hearing people talk about it like it did something for us because it didnt do anything except screw up are toyline for way too long and even if retaliation does better, the toys are still going to suck for the most part because they are movie toys, period.
is ROC the reason you type like a 5 year old?

vapor
12-19-2011, 05:06 PM
is ROC the reason you type like a 5 year old?

shut up slinger, seriously, no one likes you.

OSOK
12-19-2011, 05:19 PM
the only thing that movie did right was END!

oh?

#10: After almost 2 hours, it finally ended

Steelgrave
12-19-2011, 05:24 PM
She was absolutely awful as Scarlett, and the ambush scene exemplifies why to a tee. in a cartoon action movie where every character is self-assured and courageous, and in a scene where Snake Eyes leaps out of a plane head first (though I do believe he was ninja fast-roping so it isn't that gravity-defyingly unbelievable) and Heavy Duty hangs out of a plane firing down below, our first glimpse at Scarlett has her terrified has she runs scared behind cover, and then as the Neo Viper approaches her to finish her off, whereas she should be confidently awaiting her arrow to swing around and kill him like any good action hero, she is actually scared again.

and you can't even rationalize it as depth to the character, because there simply is no depth to any of the characters in this movie. they are all cliches, and Nichols and Sommers failed in conveying Scarlett as an action character.


Fuckin ROC threads.......


Why are we still discussing this movie anyway??? Are we getting anything out of it?

CornDog_The_Ninja
12-19-2011, 05:27 PM
Everyone has their own opinion but I think he is giving ROC way too much credit. Yea it was entertaining but you can also entertain a monkey if you wave a banana in his face. As a long Joe fan I think this movie failed miserably in almost every aspect. The opening sequence was great because it stuck to the source material. I immediately knew it was about Destro. Now let's talk about what was wrong about the film.


10. Black generic uniforms. This is gi joe not black ops. Two different units of military.

5. General Hawk with Flint's Beret.



So the only people allowed to wear black uniforms are black ops? That's not what black ops means.

And considering up until very recently, everybody in the US Army wore berets, Hawk wearing one isn't unbelievable. Flint's not the only one who has one.

Steelgrave
12-19-2011, 05:29 PM
Nothing new is being said about this movie. All anybody is doing is repeating themselves over & over & over & over & over again. Insanity!!!

ChaplainAsst
12-19-2011, 05:33 PM
What holes in the script? And the lack of real world physics? It based on a comic/ cartoon!!! As long as they do it in a way that you can buy into it then it's good. Here is a question for you... Did u like the fast five movie with the rock?

Never saw Fast Five. Probably won't. Issues in physics: a jet that can fly from Moscow to DC and outrace a missile? If it was that fast, why not use the jet? Or why couldn't MARS weaponize the nanites? All he seemed to do was put them in a giant centrifuge. The impossibility of jumping through a moving bus. As far as the comic/cartoon, NO! You can't have it both ways. This was suppose to be a reboot/realistic version of a global version of GI Joe. Why waste all that money on CGI that makes things look realistic when they are impossible?

What holes in the script? Hmmm. Well, let's start with the "convenience" issues. Wasn't it convenient that the Baroness was married to the one guy who could weaponize the nanites, and sadly, more importantly giving her the title Baroness. Or how Scarlett conviently knew not only Gaelic, but random words that just happened to allow Ripcord to fire his weapons (I won't even touch how much of a rip-off that was from Firefox - ok, I just did). What happened to the French outrage? Do you really think they would just release these people so quickly after Paris was devastated? A scene they cut out of the movie - explaining how Zartan was a gifted mimic - creates a hole in helping us understand he is a master of disguise. Or how Ripcord was a better pilot than any of the Joes - who obviously were able to pilot a sub (or if you follow the logic of the cartoon since you went there, any other vehicle). The hole in terms of training: would Duke and Ripcord really be a part of the Alpha team with so little training, yet be trusted with the Joes most expensive equipment when far superior and better trained Alpha team Joes were just sitting in the van? Heck, a Bravo team Joe would have had more training in the suit which neither Duke nor Ripcord had any training in. I mean, it is only Paris at stake .... If all the Joes were recalled globally and the only Joes available were the ones in Paris, where did a whole sub come from, much less all the other pilots of the Polar Sharcs? Ok, sure they were out in the Joe sub - why wait for the Paris team that was already under scrutiny instead of sending another Joe team? Why not use the invisibility suit for something worthwhile, like infiltrating the MARS base? Why drive up the most obvious route - with virtually no defenses - in a very weak vehicles instead of parachuting? And when did the new Joes get trained on those?

Honestly, the story wasn't horrible and these issues are likely due to a writer's strike that forced out a rough draft. But it is what it is.

Don't get so defensive, though - it wasn't a horrible movie. Just not particularly good, and could have easily been much better. Sommers just made some odd decisions that made absolutely no sense - like, why go away from the Destro mythos that was so nicely established in both the opening of the movie and in the prequel comic (that the McCullen family wore the Destro mask to remember what the French did) and instead have Destro be burned and explain that is why he now must wear the silver mask? Or go to ridiculous extremes to explain where the Baroness got her name. Poor writing made the movie too long for many scenes, and ultimately was why the movie wasn't that great.

Cobra80
12-19-2011, 05:42 PM
Aaron Eckhart as Hawk, maybe, but not Duke. He's a bit too old to build a movie franchise around when the producers want a pretty boy.

Also, you keep repeating "Rise of Crap, Rise of Crap, Rise of Crap" in various threads, and I gotta tell ya, it's not catching on. You're starting to come across like John Cena saying "CM Sucks". It's just getting awkward.

I am sorry I forgot this was "your thread" and your top 10 reasons ROC was good. Therefore I can't have opinion and I must agree with "your" opinion about how great this movie was. Yeah okay.

Samh77
12-19-2011, 05:58 PM
So the only people allowed to wear black uniforms are black ops? That's not what black ops means.

And considering up until very recently, everybody in the US Army wore berets, Hawk wearing one isn't unbelievable. Flint's not the only one who has one.
I bet that's you in the picture shoving that corn dog in your mouth.

gunslingercbr
12-19-2011, 05:59 PM
shut up slinger, seriously, no one likes you.

I can't tell if that is actually a funny reply and you were mocking my assertion that you type like a 5 year old by typing out a reply that a 5 year old would say, or if you are actually serious.

I think you were serious, which actually makes it even more hysterical. well done.

just to confirm, you actually aren't 5 years old are you?

vapor
12-19-2011, 06:02 PM
I can't tell if that is actually a funny reply and you were mocking my assertion that you type like a 5 year old by typing out a reply that a 5 year old would say, or if you are actually serious.

I think you were serious, which actually makes it even more hysterical. well done.

just to confirm, you actually aren't 5 years old are you?

lol, im going to just let this go, you have problems.

what i dont get tho is why would you bust my balls over grammar? do you feel better because you use fancy words or because i touched a soft spot of your love for roc? or is it that you just cant ever get along with anyone and always have a rude comment to say. its beyond me dude, it is one thing to debate and another to be rude for no reason, sorry hooked on phonix never worked for me.

gunslingercbr
12-19-2011, 06:13 PM
lol, im going to just let this go, you have problems.

what i dont get tho is why would you bust my balls over grammar? do you feel better because you use fancy words or because i touched a soft spot of your love for roc? or is it that you just cant ever get along with anyone and always have a rude comment to say. its beyond me dude, it is one thing to debate and another to be rude for no reason, sorry hooked on phonix never worked for me.

it just seems that ROC must have personally done something to someone who would make such a ridiculous rant about not only ROC but every other version of G.I. Joe that they didn't like, who would then try to insult others that may have liked them. by your post I thought maybe it was your ability to form grammatically correct sentences.

vapor
12-19-2011, 06:16 PM
it just seems that ROC must have personally done something to someone who would make such a ridiculous rant about not only ROC but every other version of G.I. Joe that they didn't like, who would then try to insult others that may have liked them. by your post I thought maybe it was your ability to form grammatically correct sentences.

it did do something to me, it created a hiatus for way too long. roc is the reason i stopped collecting for over a year and basically all that im saying is that i didnt like it.

its not a ridiculous comment, its what i think.

Samh77
12-19-2011, 06:17 PM
it just seems that ROC must have personally done something to someone who would make such a ridiculous rant about not only ROC but every other version of G.I. Joe that they didn't like, who would then try to insult others that may have liked them. by your post I thought maybe it was your ability to form grammatically correct sentences.
Your poor attempt at sarcastism is really corny. Don't quit your day job. Then again as much as you post on here you probably don't have one. I think I'm ging to start calling you McLovin cuz your personality matches his face.

Dealer Destro
12-19-2011, 06:24 PM
Well...... they got some names right. That's about it.

Steelgrave
12-19-2011, 06:42 PM
lol, im going to just let this go, you have problems.

what i dont get tho is why would you bust my balls over grammar? do you feel better because you use fancy words or because i touched a soft spot of your love for roc? or is it that you just cant ever get along with anyone and always have a rude comment to say. its beyond me dude, it is one thing to debate and another to be rude for no reason, sorry hooked on phonix never worked for me.


Yo! Dude! You're supposed to capitolize...........uh capitilize.............make your i's upper case.

GI Guppy the third
12-19-2011, 06:42 PM
Well... at least I got into this debate while it was civil...

CornDog_The_Ninja
12-19-2011, 06:43 PM
I bet that's you in the picture shoving that corn dog in your mouth.


Resorting to lame personal attacks because I don't agree with you and I find argument flawed? The tell-tale sign of inferior intellect.

Stay classy pimp.

GI Guppy the third
12-19-2011, 06:46 PM
I don't get it. How do others eat corndogs?

CornDog_The_Ninja
12-19-2011, 06:49 PM
Fine china and heirloom silverware is choice of the civilized.

vapor
12-19-2011, 06:52 PM
girls love corndogs.

Dealer Destro
12-19-2011, 06:55 PM
girls love corndogs.

Yes. From what I gather they are the Fat Chick Thrillers. :)

Ah hell who am I to judge. I hear they are also like mopeds.... you know.... fun to ride until your friends see you do it.

cobracobra
12-19-2011, 07:02 PM
Congrats on the article being posted! Thats pretty rad, I really agree with you on allot of the points you made. I would like to elaborate on some of the topics.

2. Ambush, When Neo-vipers heads are being blown apart by Scarlett I was going ape shit. By far the best performance we get from the Baroness

3. M.A.R.S. I think Destros character development was awesome in the film, I like how they portrayed him pre-metal faced, for half the film. Christopher Eccleston was top notch for the role and its a shame we haven't heard about his role in R.

5. Joes get kicked out of France. This reminds me the story arc The Rise of Sepentor where the Joes are asked to leave the city because of there military presence. What better country for a military to get kicked out of in the 2000s!

6. Scarlett Rachel Nichols Rachel Nichols Rachel Nichols!! What did she not do in that movie? She rode a motorcycle all crazy, fought the Baroness big time and knocked out a whole bunch of Vipers with that cross bow of hers. I ll say again when there heads exploded I was really enthralled that this was GI JOE.


07. Arnold Vosloo’s Performance, What a ultimate villain. Also great in the Dark Man sequels and in so many other classic 80s and 90s films. It was like getting a high five in the middle of the movie! I could see him doing a Zartan meets Dead pool movie and me gettting all the slurpee cups and action figures.

9. Violence Hell yeah it was violent! Though Transformers 1 was way more explosions in the face GI JOE had allot of mini action scenes that carried the plot forward at a pace I was happy with. Also the destruction of Neo Vipers was right up my alley.


I am not sure what people expected from ROC but I feel sorry there so distraught over the film, also it happened like 3 years ago please move on, what I really mean is to pass the blunt to the viper on the left.

Steelgrave
12-19-2011, 07:18 PM
I don't get it. How do others eat corndogs?


With their feet! Duh!

mightyjl
12-19-2011, 08:08 PM
You need to stop smoking angel dust before writing your lists

redx24
12-19-2011, 08:11 PM
ok ROC is too much of a powder keg for discussion it loses all its fun and meaning by the 2nd post of any thread. that said im done till we all see or dont see retaliation. im just gonna hope for the best expect nothig special. well a "YO JOE MUTHER FUCKER" might be nice

gunslingercbr
12-19-2011, 08:57 PM
Your poor attempt at sarcastism is really corny. Don't quit your day job. Then again as much as you post on here you probably don't have one. I think I'm ging to start calling you McLovin cuz your personality matches his face.

I don't think anyone that thinks "I think I'm ging to start calling you McLovin cuz your personality matches his face" is even the least bit humorous should be criticizing anyone elses humor.

and I am curious what this sarcastism is that you speak of.

Monte Williams
12-19-2011, 09:56 PM
I am sorry I forgot this was "your thread" and your top 10 reasons ROC was good. Therefore I can't have opinion and I must agree with "your" opinion about how great this movie was. Yeah okay.

There have been many, many, many comments in this thread criticizing the film. Hell, my list criticized the film.

I don't care if you criticize the film.

I'm just telling you that you come across like an idiot when you type "Rise of Crap" over and over again.

darthmaul1
12-19-2011, 10:04 PM
Never saw Fast Five. Probably won't. Issues in physics: a jet that can fly from Moscow to DC and outrace a missile? If it was that fast, why not use the jet? Or why couldn't MARS weaponize the nanites? All he seemed to do was put them in a giant centrifuge. The impossibility of jumping through a moving bus. As far as the comic/cartoon, NO! You can't have it both ways. This was suppose to be a reboot/realistic version of a global version of GI Joe. Why waste all that money on CGI that makes things look realistic when they are impossible?

What holes in the script? Hmmm. Well, let's start with the "convenience" issues. Wasn't it convenient that the Baroness was married to the one guy who could weaponize the nanites, and sadly, more importantly giving her the title Baroness. Or how Scarlett conviently knew not only Gaelic, but random words that just happened to allow Ripcord to fire his weapons (I won't even touch how much of a rip-off that was from Firefox - ok, I just did). What happened to the French outrage? Do you really think they would just release these people so quickly after Paris was devastated? A scene they cut out of the movie - explaining how Zartan was a gifted mimic - creates a hole in helping us understand he is a master of disguise. Or how Ripcord was a better pilot than any of the Joes - who obviously were able to pilot a sub (or if you follow the logic of the cartoon since you went there, any other vehicle). The hole in terms of training: would Duke and Ripcord really be a part of the Alpha team with so little training, yet be trusted with the Joes most expensive equipment when far superior and better trained Alpha team Joes were just sitting in the van? Heck, a Bravo team Joe would have had more training in the suit which neither Duke nor Ripcord had any training in. I mean, it is only Paris at stake .... If all the Joes were recalled globally and the only Joes available were the ones in Paris, where did a whole sub come from, much less all the other pilots of the Polar Sharcs? Ok, sure they were out in the Joe sub - why wait for the Paris team that was already under scrutiny instead of sending another Joe team? Why not use the invisibility suit for something worthwhile, like infiltrating the MARS base? Why drive up the most obvious route - with virtually no defenses - in a very weak vehicles instead of parachuting? And when did the new Joes get trained on those?

Honestly, the story wasn't horrible and these issues are likely due to a writer's strike that forced out a rough draft. But it is what it is.

Don't get so defensive, though - it wasn't a horrible movie. Just not particularly good, and could have easily been much better. Sommers just made some odd decisions that made absolutely no sense - like, why go away from the Destro mythos that was so nicely established in both the opening of the movie and in the prequel comic (that the McCullen family wore the Destro mask to remember what the French did) and instead have Destro be burned and explain that is why he now must wear the silver mask? Or go to ridiculous extremes to explain where the Baroness got her name. Poor writing made the movie too long for many scenes, and ultimately was why the movie wasn't that great.

For me and IMO i didn't find anything wrong with what you mentioned above, the movie was done in such a way that i bought into everything even though it was over the top. Unfortunately you really didn't buy into the film from the get go and therefore start to tear it apart. I did the same thing with TF2 and TF3 just the way those were put together for me were terrible and i didn't buy into it. Same goes for fast five right at the start. to each his own.

Python_Puckman
12-19-2011, 10:08 PM
#4 all the way! Stormy's scenes were my favorites

captain99
12-19-2011, 11:03 PM
Wow. I didn't think there would be enough things done right to fill out 5, let alone 10.

Unclassified
12-19-2011, 11:06 PM
i still can't think of 1, how in the world did you get 10?

Crazy Legs
12-19-2011, 11:30 PM
The prologue was a complete unnecessary waste of time and money. Why? Cause Destro went on to explain what we saw in the prologue later on completely. We got told the same thing TWICE. And the beef between SS and SE didnt need flashbacks either.

Scarlet was horrible, im sorry. She was almost a borg for no reason. "Me cant feel, if me feel my women hormones take over." Or some crap like that.

samantha
12-20-2011, 12:08 AM
I enjoyed ROC. :D

Monkeywrench
12-20-2011, 12:28 AM
don't agree with most of it especially Scarlett... she was awful

ChaplainAsst
12-20-2011, 08:38 AM
For me and IMO i didn't find anything wrong with what you mentioned above, the movie was done in such a way that i bought into everything even though it was over the top. Unfortunately you really didn't buy into the film from the get go and therefore start to tear it apart. I did the same thing with TF2 and TF3 just the way those were put together for me were terrible and i didn't buy into it. Same goes for fast five right at the start. to each his own.

Actually, I did, as I watched it, just took it in as a movie and accepted most of the premise. It was when I thought about it afterwards that I realized that the crew was likely having to fluff over major details because they made no sense - but with the writer's strike, they also had no real rewrites by people who could make educated decisions.

TF2 I was not so kind with - and I haven't seen TF3. TF2 was just horrible, and it wasn't all the script. To have Spielberg's name in any way attached to these movies only degrades his standing.

Cobra80
12-20-2011, 09:29 AM
TF2 I was not so kind with - and I haven't seen TF3. TF2 was just horrible, and it wasn't all the script. To have Spielberg's name in any way attached to these movies only degrades his standing.

this is why I think the ROCobra (not Crap because another Tanker doesn't like me to talk about the movie like that) debate will always go on. I actually enjoyed All 3 TF movies. I really liked the DOTM, yet a ton of people hated all 3 TF movies.

We will never be able to see eye to eye on the train wreck known as Rise of Cra....... so we should just agree to disagree and look forward to Retaliation.

M_renegade
12-20-2011, 09:48 AM
Nice list, Monte.

I would add as #10 all the nods of all Joe eras, starting from Duke's scar, going thru Bazooka's framed shirt, Destro's Iron Grenadiers proto-logo, and Sigma6 logo at the end too. There's a lot of other stuff in there, pity people don't realize it's a Gi Joe movie, not an Arah adaptation and couldn't see beyond that.


She was absolutely awful as Scarlett, and the ambush scene exemplifies why to a tee. in a cartoon action movie where every character is self-assured and courageous, and in a scene where Snake Eyes leaps out of a plane head first (though I do believe he was ninja fast-roping so it isn't that gravity-defyingly unbelievable) and Heavy Duty hangs out of a plane firing down below, our first glimpse at Scarlett has her terrified has she runs scared behind cover, and then as the Neo Viper approaches her to finish her off, whereas she should be confidently awaiting her arrow to swing around and kill him like any good action hero, she is actually scared again.

Humm..no.

The first glimpse we have is her shooting his crossbow (don't remember if she's actually rappeling down).
She runs later for cover when the Vipers start shoting their pulse guns (horrible).
Then she hears the arrow coming down, she isn't confident because she didn't planed that, it's supposed to be a coincidence (not sure if funny), and she doesn't looks scared, but surprised.

figureware
12-20-2011, 10:09 AM
I believe the biggest tell on that movies fate was in the dvd extras when the director says he never watched the show or knew anything about the GI Joe v Cobra sub story! can you say RED FLAGG?

gunslingercbr
12-20-2011, 10:34 AM
Nice list, Monte.

I would add as #10 all the nods of all Joe eras, starting from Duke's scar, going thru Bazooka's framed shirt, Destro's Iron Grenadiers proto-logo, and Sigma6 logo at the end too. There's a lot of other stuff in there, pity people don't realize it's a Gi Joe movie, not an Arah adaptation and couldn't see beyond that.



Humm..no.

The first glimpse we have is her shooting his crossbow (don't remember if she's actually rappeling down).
She runs later for cover when the Vipers start shoting their pulse guns (horrible).
Then she hears the arrow coming down, she isn't confident because she didn't planed that, it's supposed to be a coincidence (not sure if funny), and she doesn't looks scared, but surprised.

No, the first look at her is the scene as a whole not just the very first moment she is on screen. and she is scared in that scene. not to mention she set the arrow on the neo-viper so if it was capable of swinging around back at it she should have been so familiar with her weapon as to expect it so she shouldn't have been surprised at all when it occurred.

Shipshape1983
12-20-2011, 11:22 AM
agreed.

M_renegade
12-20-2011, 12:29 PM
No, the first look at her is the scene as a whole not just the very first moment she is on screen. and she is scared in that scene. not to mention she set the arrow on the neo-viper so if it was capable of swinging around back at it she should have been so familiar with her weapon as to expect it so she shouldn't have been surprised at all when it occurred.

She doesn't shoots up on purpose, there's an explosion or something that makes her shoot ahead of time and the arrow is supposedly lost. The arrow falling back on the Viper's eye is meant to be one of those "ouch!" moments (not that i find it particularly funny).
And is not like she fails or something, since when she appears is shooting down two other vipers, something that not a single soldier can do.

And she's hot, dammit.
.

CobraCommandr
12-20-2011, 01:22 PM
A lot of people complained about nanomytes, but in my mind isn't far off from Joe. There has been ridiculous things in the cartoon and everyone still loves it. I think the movie was another good incarnation of Joe. If it was the same thing as previous, it's a "been there, done that." They are trying to keep things fresh and new. RoC wasn't great because it just wasn't great, it was another good action flick. Movies for guys who like movies. Retaliation will be better IMO, but I don't expect ARAH, I expect another cool take on Joe.

drunknmunky
12-20-2011, 01:32 PM
A lot of people complained about nanomytes, but in my mind isn't far off from Joe. There has been ridiculous things in the cartoon and everyone still loves it. I think the movie was another good incarnation of Joe. If it was the same thing as previous, it's a "been there, done that." They are trying to keep things fresh and new. RoC wasn't great because it just wasn't great, it was another good action flick. Movies for guys who like movies. Retaliation will be better IMO, but I don't expect ARAH, I expect another cool take on Joe.

Exactly. Retaliation isn't going to be winning any Oscars, that's for sure. But it will entertain- just like RoC did. People forget that RoC is a NEW take on GI Joe and it takes place BEFORE Cobra is formed. The storyline was awesome because it was something we would have seen in the comics or cartoon. I don't really understand what people were expecting out of a Joe movie. Like I've said before, just because we grew up doesn't mean our toys did too.

ChaplainAsst
12-20-2011, 04:18 PM
A lot of people complained about nanomytes, but in my mind isn't far off from Joe. There has been ridiculous things in the cartoon and everyone still loves it. I think the movie was another good incarnation of Joe. If it was the same thing as previous, it's a "been there, done that." They are trying to keep things fresh and new. RoC wasn't great because it just wasn't great, it was another good action flick. Movies for guys who like movies. Retaliation will be better IMO, but I don't expect ARAH, I expect another cool take on Joe.

The nanites were straight from DDP (or Image or whatever it was for the initial mini-series). They even mentioned that they were used to create the nano-vipers. No problem with that. The comic even had them eating tanks and people - fine. But then you have two other things nanites were used for in the movie that push it a little bit - Destro's mask and Zartan's new identity. They make it clear that with Zartan, much work went into specializing nanites for the task. But then CC gives Destro a shot of them with no specialization - there was no time - and instantly he has the metal mask. That one jumped the shark. Why not have Duke find some nanites that rebuilt the Eiffel Tower? Or heal Hawk, or revive CG? They can do anything!

Just as Retaliation is taking little bits from DDP - a Cobra agent in the White House who causes an attack on the Joes on trumped up charges (Pheonix Guard saga), the team being reduced in size and scope due to accusations (this happened twice I believe in DDP), Cobra taking over the White House (WW3) - so did RoC, but that doesn't make the idea automatically a good one. It is how you use the idea. The Nano-Vipers were simply horrible in execution in RoC. I can't think of an instance after the midpoint in the movie that the nanite technology played a role in them actually being a better warrior. Ironically, it played a bigger role in the ambush scene in what we can only assume were not nano-vipers.

To your point about it being a good incarnation of Joe, that's a fair opinion, but this was less an incarnation of GI Joe than anything short of Extreme. Sigma 6 was closer to ARAH, as were Spy Troops and VvV. RoC radically altered the entire make-up of the team, the character's identities, and even what it made it special.

To be clear, I didn't hate the movie, but Retaliation looks more like what I expected. As others have said before, even the TF movies seem more like GI Joe in many ways than RoC did!

Cobra_Seph
12-20-2011, 04:29 PM
lolz i will with #10
but there are still stuff i think they did pretty darn good. cant wait for retaliation.

sharky
12-20-2011, 05:04 PM
I would like to point out that if ROC was actually a good movie you wouldn't even need to create a "the 10 things ROC did right" article.

drunknmunky
12-20-2011, 05:28 PM
I would like to point out that if ROC was actually a good movie you wouldn't even need to create a "the 10 things ROC did right" article.

So if I make a ” 10 things RoC did wrong” could I say the same thing?

sharky
12-20-2011, 05:29 PM
So if I make a ” 10 things RoC did wrong” could I say the same thing?
It's too late for that. The deed is done. :D Besides it would only be for spite and not from a true sense of ROC doing things mostly right.

drunknmunky
12-20-2011, 05:38 PM
It's too late for that. The deed is done. :D Besides it would only be for spite and not from a true sense of ROC doing things mostly right.

If I get the Rock to do a shot by shot remake with him replacing Tatum would that help at all? :)

sharky
12-20-2011, 05:40 PM
If I get the Rock to do a shot by shot remake with him replacing Tatum would that help at all? :)
Only if "shot by shot" means that the Rock is shooting Tatum the whole movie. :D

drunknmunky
12-20-2011, 05:48 PM
Only if "shot by shot" means that the Rock is shooting Tatum the whole movie. :D

Sounds good. But only if he can blame it on the Nano Mites making him turn evil.

Monte Williams
12-20-2011, 11:21 PM
Ya know what bugged me about the Neo Vipers? They go to all this trouble to show they have literally no fear, and then one of them screams as he falls to death.

The hell?

GI Guppy the third
12-20-2011, 11:25 PM
Ya know what bugged me about the Neo Vipers? They go to all this trouble to show they have literally no fear, and then one of them screams as he falls to death.

The hell?

He really just hates it when bugs splat on his visor from intense speeds.

zedhatch
12-20-2011, 11:36 PM
Well I knew there wasn't 10 things ROC got right.

I won't cover everything but a few thoughts on the entries-

3. MARS-Well yeah thier name was dropped but I never felt they were established well. There was a lot of confusion on exactly what thier goals were (ie Stealing a weapon that they created) and exactly what was going on. In that way I think they kind of went off the tracks.

6. Scarlett-You confused me a bit on this when you said "killed imeadiatly" when vunerable. Cover Girl never had a chance IMO to be anything besides window dressing. Scarlett survived the movie, so how does that mean vunerable=dead.

Still Nichols was alright and played what she was handed as best she could (I do feel some of the weak points of the character are more attributed to poor writing and/or directing, as with many of the characters).

8. Doctor-EHHHH Ok he really was one of the aspects of the movie I HATED. Again I think the parts I hated were writing and direction more than anything, but there was nothing I liked about him.

9. Not sure if I would catagorize the film as violent, then again my kid (who was 7 when I had to watch evil dead for a film class) has never had a problem with violence, and honestly she is the most well adjusted of my three kids (the others were often sheltered from such movies). But ROC I wouldn't say was very violent, plenty of action, but I barely remember any blood at all.

Monte Williams
12-20-2011, 11:45 PM
Scarlett survived the movie, so how does that mean vunerable=dead.

Well, the actual quote is, "the only two females on the Joe team are “vulnerable” and immediately killed, respectively."

So what I was trying to get across is that there are two females on the team, and one is vulnerable in a way none of the men are, and the other is killed immediately.

Scoop
12-20-2011, 11:48 PM
I didn't read through the whole article, though I did skim through it a bit.

Were the Nano-mites even mentioned?

I really didn't care for them or the whole idea of them for the premise of the movie, but I will say this... That hairbrained idea was totally COBRA! It was something very similar to many of the things they tried to pull off in the cartoons.

Even though I didn't like them, I still feel that it was something they did do right for the movie as far as an idea that you would expect Cobra to try to pull off.

darthmaul1
12-21-2011, 01:17 PM
3. MARS-Well yeah thier name was dropped but I never felt they were established well. There was a lot of confusion on exactly what thier goals were (ie Stealing a weapon that they created) and exactly what was going on. In that way I think they kind of went off the tracks.

What Confusion? they were trying to steal their weapon from NATO to discredit nato, that is why destro was upset when the first attempt failed. Also NATO funded the manufactuing of the weapon.

Onslaught Six
12-21-2011, 04:45 PM
What Confusion? they were trying to steal their weapon from NATO to discredit nato, that is why destro was upset when the first attempt failed. Also NATO funded the manufactuing of the weapon.

This. Destro's plan was for the "terrorists" (who the world doesn't know Destro is the leader of) would see the destruction of the weapons and see that Destro would totally be needed.

red4
12-22-2011, 04:09 AM
Channing Tatum looks like a chimpanzee.
Baroness didn't have her accent.
Destro didn't dress like an 80's rocker.
There wasn't a drop of blue-green on Scarlett's clothes.
Hasbro didn't produce a Baroness figure with heaving cleavage -whooops! That's not the movie's fault *cough*

Monte Williams
12-22-2011, 04:13 AM
Destro didn't dress like an 80's rocker.

Thankfully.

Hasbro didn't produce a Baroness figure with heaving cleavage

Just repaint the first Anniversary Lady Jaye. That was a pretty obnoxious figure in that regard, for G.I. Joe, at least.

zedhatch
12-22-2011, 11:35 AM
Well, the actual quote is, "the only two females on the Joe team are “vulnerable” and immediately killed, respectively."

So what I was trying to get across is that there are two females on the team, and one is vulnerable in a way none of the men are, and the other is killed immediately.

OK my confusion sorry.

zedhatch
12-22-2011, 11:40 AM
What Confusion? they were trying to steal their weapon from NATO to discredit nato, that is why destro was upset when the first attempt failed. Also NATO funded the manufactuing of the weapon.

And where did Destro say this? Also when he the first attempt failed he siad "NATO must be blamed." Blamed for what, the theft? The Eifle Tower? Duke? What?

Let's not foget that when Destro does get the nanites he just dumps the discredit idea entirely and moves to destroying the eifile tower. I mean if he really was trying to discredit NATO you think he would have been more active about it when he got his goal.

I have always said that the way to save ROC would have been to say that whole arc was a ruse to get Zartan into the white house. Would have explained the plotholes and confusion and been a cool surprize at the end to make Destro seem a bit more cunning.

drunknmunky
12-22-2011, 01:33 PM
Baroness asks Destro why she couldn't just steal the Nano Mites from the Mars facility. Destro replies with something to the affect of ” and what, lose the trust of Nato? It has to be their fault.” In a scene that was in the book but not the movie, Hawk asks Destro if his team can transport the warheads. Obviously Destro says no. But it better explains how the Joe team knew exactly where the transport would be. It wasn't about trying to discredit Nato, it was about Mars not losing millions of dollars in future projects. Nato just happened to be the scapegoats.

Typhis
12-22-2011, 01:54 PM
I didn't think the movie was that bad.

darthmaul1
12-22-2011, 03:46 PM
And where did Destro say this? Also when he the first attempt failed he siad "NATO must be blamed." Blamed for what, the theft? The Eifle Tower? Duke? What?

Let's not foget that when Destro does get the nanites he just dumps the discredit idea entirely and moves to destroying the eifile tower. I mean if he really was trying to discredit NATO you think he would have been more active about it when he got his goal.

I have always said that the way to save ROC would have been to say that whole arc was a ruse to get Zartan into the white house. Would have explained the plotholes and confusion and been a cool surprize at the end to make Destro seem a bit more cunning.

Baroness asks Destro why she couldn't just steal the Nano Mites from the Mars facility. Destro replies with something to the affect of ” and what, lose the trust of Nato? It has to be their fault.” In a scene that was in the book but not the movie, Hawk asks Destro if his team can transport the warheads. Obviously Destro says no. But it better explains how the Joe team knew exactly where the transport would be. It wasn't about trying to discredit Nato, it was about Mars not losing millions of dollars in future projects. Nato just happened to be the scapegoats.

He said it while he was on the sub and the baroness and stormshadow were holograms on the sub. i meant to say Destro wanted to have the loss of the warheads to be nato's fault (not to discredit nato) as drunkmunky said he didn't want to loose the trust and money of the investors etc. so that is why he tried to take them from the NATO convoy. So MARS would not be blamed, nato would, so after that once the Joes have the warheads he no longer has to worry about placing blame on nato. using the warheads was part of the plan to get Zartan into the whitehouse, so the president would be iscolated in the MARS bunker.

MeLikeJinx
12-23-2011, 05:18 AM
10 things ROC did right...

1.) Rachel Nichols
2.) Rachel Nichols in tanktop
3.) Rachel Nichols in tanktop while on treadmill
4.) Rachel Nichols in Reactive Armor
5.) Rachel Nichols' boobs in Reactive Armor
6.) Rachel Nichols in Blue Camo
7.) Rachel Nichols' Pantene red hair
8.) Rachel Nichols' Pantene red hair in a ponytail
9.) Rachel Nichols' catfight with Sienna Miller
10.) Sienna Miller

ShockVal
12-23-2011, 05:44 AM
When SE comes diving in - almost brought me to tears and still does.

zedhatch
12-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Baroness asks Destro why she couldn't just steal the Nano Mites from the Mars facility. Destro replies with something to the affect of ” and what, lose the trust of Nato? It has to be their fault.” In a scene that was in the book but not the movie, Hawk asks Destro if his team can transport the warheads. Obviously Destro says no. But it better explains how the Joe team knew exactly where the transport would be. It wasn't about trying to discredit Nato, it was about Mars not losing millions of dollars in future projects. Nato just happened to be the scapegoats.

That really sounds like a great deal of inference rather than what's based on screane, the referencing of the book further iterates the point that the movie was confusing, a viewer shouldn't have to read a book to get the whole story from the movie.

He said it while he was on the sub and the baroness and stormshadow were holograms on the sub. i meant to say Destro wanted to have the loss of the warheads to be nato's fault (not to discredit nato) as drunkmunky said he didn't want to loose the trust and money of the investors etc. so that is why he tried to take them from the NATO convoy. So MARS would not be blamed, nato would, so after that once the Joes have the warheads he no longer has to worry about placing blame on nato. using the warheads was part of the plan to get Zartan into the whitehouse, so the president would be iscolated in the MARS bunker.

Thing is he said "NATO MUST be blamed" with a huge emphasis on the "MUST" which implied something larger than a simple loss of the nanos. Still how does one get blamed for a theft from them. You don't blame a houseowner after a robbery of his/her home. It never matched up to fans explainations IMO. There is simply too much infered and not enough explained on screen.

darthmaul1
12-23-2011, 01:00 PM
That really sounds like a great deal of inference rather than what's based on screane, the referencing of the book further iterates the point that the movie was confusing, a viewer shouldn't have to read a book to get the whole story from the movie.



Thing is he said "NATO MUST be blamed" with a huge emphasis on the "MUST" which implied something larger than a simple loss of the nanos. Still how does one get blamed for a theft from them. You don't blame a houseowner after a robbery of his/her home. It never matched up to fans explainations IMO. There is simply too much infered and not enough explained on screen.

He never said NATO MUST be blamed.

This is exactly the conversation between Destro and the Baroness

"We're on a deadline. We need those warheads now! You knew that! 10 years setting this up, wringing money out of NATO, this was supposed to be the easy part."

"If you had let me stage the assault at your precious factory, I could have contained the situation."

"And lost the trust of our clients in the process. It had to be NATO's fault!"

Basically going by this he obviously didn't want MARS industries to be held accountable for the loss of the warheads, so when NATO was transporting them he could take them and the clients wouldn't loose trust in MARS.
But after that mission failed it didn't matter how he got them back cause now the Joes had the warheads.

crock master
12-23-2011, 01:37 PM
Baroness asks Destro why she couldn't just steal the Nano Mites from the Mars facility. Destro replies with something to the affect of ” and what, lose the trust of Nato? It has to be their fault.” In a scene that was in the book but not the movie, Hawk asks Destro if his team can transport the warheads. Obviously Destro says no. But it better explains how the Joe team knew exactly where the transport would be. It wasn't about trying to discredit Nato, it was about Mars not losing millions of dollars in future projects. Nato just happened to be the scapegoats.

PLEASE! ROC needs no explanation.

zedhatch
12-23-2011, 01:42 PM
He never said NATO MUST be blamed.

This is exactly the conversation between Destro and the Baroness

"We're on a deadline. We need those warheads now! You knew that! 10 years setting this up, wringing money out of NATO, this was supposed to be the easy part."

"If you had let me stage the assault at your precious factory, I could have contained the situation."

"And lost the trust of our clients in the process. It had to be NATO's fault!"

Basically going by this he obviously didn't want MARS industries to be held accountable for the loss of the warheads, so when NATO was transporting them he could take them and the clients wouldn't loose trust in MARS.
But after that mission failed it didn't matter how he got them back cause now the Joes had the warheads.

If you say so, whatever, I got sick a long time ago trying to discuss this little facit of terrible writing. Want to defend it that is your perogitive.

drunknmunky
12-23-2011, 02:15 PM
If you say so, whatever, I got sick a long time ago trying to discuss this little facit of terrible writing. Want to defend it that is your perogitive.

I find it funny that now you're sick of taking about it. Obviously you didn't get sick of discussing it a long time ago, you posted more about it an hour ago. The fact is you were proven wrong. You thought you had found a giant hole in the plot but you were proven wrong. Just admit it and move on.

zedhatch
12-23-2011, 03:06 PM
I find it funny that now you're sick of taking about it. Obviously you didn't get sick of discussing it a long time ago, you posted more about it an hour ago. The fact is you were proven wrong. You thought you had found a giant hole in the plot but you were proven wrong. Just admit it and move on.

I posted plenty about it at the time, and no I don't see where you proved me wrong.

It's simply poor writing, infer what you wish.

The real reason I am sick of it is that nothing will convice you that your assumptions are not exactly what you think was intended. It's just pointless.

red4
12-23-2011, 03:31 PM
I have to agree with Drunknmunky. The writing can't be interpreted any other way. I don't understand where your confusion is coming from, Zedhatch. The whole structure of the movie is childish. Any given scene makes perfect sense in and of itself, but you shouldn't be too concerned if it lacks a realistic impact on the scene that follows.

When Destro explains the NATO scheme, it makes perfect sense. And then the movie goes right along to the next absurd scene in which we're not supposed to care what just happened. If you want to nitpick, the GI Joes should have undercover Interpol agents tracking their movements as soon as they've been banned from France - that would be a realistic consequence of the France scene. But the movie is childish, and we're supposed to forget about all of that, since it moves right along to the next absurd scene.
So when there is no further mention of the NATO scheme, it doesn't mean there was or wasn't something more complex to it. It's just a throwaway explanation for a scene that was nonsense to begin with - every scene in the movie is nonsense.

Conway
12-23-2011, 04:56 PM
Nice article, Monte! You do an admirable job polishing this turd. I had a hard time with the Baroness/Duke thing and the rest of the movie isn't good, either. It's a bad movie, and if you're not a Joe fan picking out micro parts to enjoy, it actually is a terrible action movie.

darthmaul1
12-23-2011, 09:18 PM
I have to agree with Drunknmunky. The writing can't be interpreted any other way. I don't understand where your confusion is coming from, Zedhatch. The whole structure of the movie is childish. Any given scene makes perfect sense in and of itself, but you shouldn't be too concerned if it lacks a realistic impact on the scene that follows.

When Destro explains the NATO scheme, it makes perfect sense. And then the movie goes right along to the next absurd scene in which we're not supposed to care what just happened. If you want to nitpick, the GI Joes should have undercover Interpol agents tracking their movements as soon as they've been banned from France - that would be a realistic consequence of the France scene. But the movie is childish, and we're supposed to forget about all of that, since it moves right along to the next absurd scene.
So when there is no further mention of the NATO scheme, it doesn't mean there was or wasn't something more complex to it. It's just a throwaway explanation for a scene that was nonsense to begin with - every scene in the movie is nonsense.

It's not a throw away explanation. It was a part of the story and has served its perpouse to move the plot along.

red4
12-24-2011, 05:19 AM
It's not a throw away explanation. It was a part of the story and has served its perpouse to move the plot along.

To move the plot along in a silly movie where one event has little or no consequence for the scene that follows it - that's what I mean by throwaway. Everything is fleeting, so the audience isn't supposed to care about the lack of realism.

darthmaul1
12-24-2011, 04:31 PM
To move the plot along in a silly movie where one event has little or no consequence for the scene that follows it - that's what I mean by throwaway. Everything is fleeting, so the audience isn't supposed to care about the lack of realism.

It did have consequence with the scene that followed cause it setup duke and the baroness meeting. And allows cobra to attack the pit cause the joes have the warheads now. An example of a throw away scene in a movie is TF 3 where they go into the glass building that shockwave destroyed. It served absolutely no purpose

red4
12-24-2011, 07:13 PM
It did have consequence with the scene that followed cause it setup duke and the baroness meeting. And allows cobra to attack the pit cause the joes have the warheads now. An example of a throw away scene in a movie is TF 3 where they go into the glass building that shockwave destroyed. It served absolutely no purpose

'k...

GI C
12-24-2011, 08:29 PM
I have to ask,how graphic was Cover Girl's death?Judging by the photo where Zartan is behind her.How did she meet her end.

Monkeywrench
12-24-2011, 08:34 PM
I would like to point out that if ROC was actually a good movie you wouldn't even need to create a "the 10 things ROC did right" article.

this

WildWill
12-24-2011, 08:57 PM
I liked the first movie. I know I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed the hell out of it. I had low expectations going in and was pleasantly surprised at how much sheer fun it was.

So there.

drunknmunky
12-24-2011, 09:10 PM
I liked the first movie. I know I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed the hell out of it. I had low expectations going in and was pleasantly surprised at how much sheer fun it was.

So there.

I approve this message :) The movie was just as fun, action packed and cheesy as any of our Marvel or Sunbow memories.

WildWill
12-24-2011, 09:28 PM
Life's too short to get seriously bent out of shape over a movie.

Monte Williams
12-24-2011, 11:00 PM
I have to ask,how graphic was Cover Girl's death?Judging by the photo where Zartan is behind her.How did she meet her end.

She starts to say something to General Hawk, when suddenly she is stabbed through the gut by Zartan and falls unceremoniously to her death. Then Storm Shadow slices Hawk across the chest with his katana.

I found an image:

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z58/MonteWilliams/Avoiding%20HotLinking/CoverGirl.jpg

I forgot he stabs her through her computer.

Meanwhile, the look on her face makes it seem graphic, alright, but not in a violent sense.