Did I just see what I think I saw? (Trailer related)

[mynameisash]

Duke is dead??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I mean, I think that they could have gotten another actor to play Duke, but why the hell kill him off????? He's the poster boy for GIJoe!!!!!!! If he's dead, im gonna have mixed feelings toward this movie. Duke has always been my fav joe...Not The RockBlock

[Lantern_Lad]

Nah... I'd saying knowing Duke (and his new "relationship" with Rex/Commander) he's just, as usual, captured.

[KingBiohazerd]

Its a trailer people are getting excited over maybe he's dead I'm sure he's not but it might explain why he was only on set a few days.

[Headman]

Man, there's a lot of these threads tonight. Gotta save this one with some funny pictures of cats doing funny things or something.

[Sgt Humpty]

Man, there's a lot of these threads tonight. Gotta save this one with some funny pictures of cats doing funny things or something.

LOL.

I have to agree, though. Duke was portrayed horribly in RoC (and also in Sunblow, for that matter), but he's a great character. I'd rather see them minimize Tatum's screentime without killing off Duke entirely.

[thairestauranteur]

Nah... I'd saying knowing Duke (and his new "relationship" with Rex/Commander) he's just, as usual, captured.



Maybe Rex Commander is dead/fired.

Maybe the new IDW Krake Commander is who stars in this installment!! IDW worked with Hasblo on the Krake design after all. It would make sense that they are going to bring this figure design to market. Yet another Cobra Commander figure. Woopee.

[Steelgrave]

Who cares about Duke? Where's Scarlett? Don't tell me she got killed too. That's a load of crap! How the hell do you kill off all the core characters?

[nerdsgetchicks]

I see the Rattler being re-made. Those looked bad ass!

[Colonel Bludd]

Who cares about Duke? Where's Scarlett? Don't tell me she got killed too. That's a load of crap! How the hell do you kill off all the core characters?

The same way you can have star trek the next generation. life goes on. After a while the original 13 weren't seen as much in the cartoon anyway.

[RANGER SMITTY]

I think the red head walking up the stairs in the evening gown may turn out to be Scarlett, just a different actress. She's shown in two momentary clips, they wouldn't do that for no reason.

I do believe, however that Duke and the rest of the joes are killed off, at least thats the impression that the trailer gives me, anyway.

[Lantern_Lad]

Nah, Doc just called in, Duke's gone into a coma!

[Ska_lives]

I never was a big duke fan, but Im sure hes not dead. Theyve just got the joe team scattered to the winds again. I mean how many times have the powers that be done that?
I am just ready to see this thing because it is looking like classic JOE!

[M_renegade]

I think the red head walking up the stairs in the evening gown may turn out to be Scarlett, just a different actress. She's shown in two momentary clips, they wouldn't do that for no reason.

That's Lady Jaye. Adrienne Palicki.

I don't think they're killing any old character, since none is shown here. I'm not sure about Duke though, but he seems to save Flint or Mouse (not sure). The 'Block takes some dogtags from a dead guy, but i can't tell if it's Duke. I don't think so.

[blayze5150]

I hope Hawk is at a "peace conference" somewhere. No Duke or Hawk would be an epic fail.

[Talisman]

I hope Hawk is at a "peace conference" somewhere. No Duke or Hawk would be an epic fail.

Hawk is likely being held prisoner somewhere. Too valuable of an information source to kill, in my mind.

[MLos1]

Duke will get captured like he did in so very many episodes of the cartoon...not killed off completely...

Duke is Hasbro's gi joe golden child...Duke is to gi joe as optimus prime is to transformers...you can feign his death, or capture him to remove him from the picture to expedite the evolution of the new characters appearing...but he'll never be fully dismissed.

[MeLikeJinx]

I think everybody that died at the camp were like the new Joe recruits... maybe the ROC Joes retired from active Joe service and went back to the regular branches of service.

[gunslingercbr]

there is nothing in the trailer that even remotely shows that Duke gets killed.

[Flint-wo2]

DUKE is likely being held prisoner somewhere. Too valuable of an information source to kill, in my mind.

Fixed.

[mav55mdash]

if it is like the cartoon, he is in a coma and won't wake up till after all is done. it would make sense. being more focused on the 80's cartoon. but cobra commander looks awesome. where is destro???

[AlternateUniverse Steeler]

OMG they finally got it right ( I Hope ). Cobra Commander with the dome face, cobra takes over America. The Rock as Roadblock. I think this will wash the rancid taste of the first movie away.

[sparhawk]

there is nothing in the trailer that even remotely shows that Duke gets killed.
After pulling dog tags from one particular soldier, in a scene where Duke was but now isn't.
Flint "They're all dead."
Roadblock "We're all that's left."
Yup. nothing REMOTELY shows Duke getting killed.

[Crimson Rage]

there is nothing in the trailer that even remotely shows that Duke gets killed.

It's inferred. He's present at the massacre, Flint claims "they're all dead" and Roadblock states that they're the "last three". Obviously there's plenty of wiggle room and chance to qualify these statements later in the film, such as extra lines suggesting some are MIA.

[Jmacq1]

It's inferred. He's present at the massacre, Flint claims "they're all dead" and Roadblock states that they're the "last three". Obviously there's plenty of wiggle room and chance to qualify these statements later in the film, such as extra lines suggesting some are MIA.

Yes, Duke's death is in fact inferred in the trailer.

However, while I think they will make it look like Duke was killed, there is a very good chance he just ends up captured, only to be released in the last few minutes of the movie.

Probably make it look like Duke gets blown up in a big explosion (which would explain why the surviving three don't look to confirm if his body is present), only to find out Rex/Commander had Duke carted off to be tortured due to their personal relationship and in revenge for spoiling his last big scheme. Plus Duke possibly being injured in the attack gives a good excuse as to why he doesn't escape/is out of the action for most of the movie.

Or maybe there's a line not in the trailer to the effect of:

Roadblock: "I don't see Duke anywhere. What about anyone else?"

Flint: "They're all dead"

At this point, I'd say it's about 75/25 chance of Duke getting captured/killed respectively. It'd be really ballsy of Hasbro and Paramount to "kill" him for real in the movie franchise. Major props if they did, but I doubt it. You'd have to admit though...killing Tatum-Duke would pretty much be the ultimate fanservice for all the RoC-haters (and even many of them that liked RoC fine except for Tatum's non-performance). From that perspective it almost DOES seem like something this batch of filmmakers would do. The whole "Yeah, we know you hated that last movie, now watch as we expunge almost all traces of it!" Plus, killing Duke actually makes certain other things (like re-introducing the Baroness) easier, as the whole Anna/Rex subplot basically never needs to be mentioned again after that.

As someone mentioned in one of the other threads: It'd be like Lucas opening up Episode 3 of Star Wars with Jar-Jar getting sliced in half by a lightsaber.

[jiffy18]

Nah, I'm sure he was just captured and tortured. It would actually give them a chance to re-introduce doctor mindbender or whatever.

[Crimson Rage]

At this point, I'd say it's about 75/25 chance of Duke getting captured/killed respectively. It'd be really ballsy of Hasbro and Paramount to "kill" him for real in the movie franchise. Major props if they did, but I doubt it. You'd have to admit though...killing Tatum-Duke would pretty much be the ultimate fanservice for all the RoC-haters (and even many of them that liked RoC fine except for Tatum's non-performance). From that perspective it almost DOES seem like something this batch of filmmakers would do. The whole "Yeah, we know you hated that last movie, now watch as we expunge almost all traces of it!" Plus, killing Duke actually makes certain other things (like re-introducing the Baroness) easier, as the whole Anna/Rex subplot basically never needs to be mentioned again after that.

As someone mentioned in one of the other threads: It'd be like Lucas opening up Episode 3 of Star Wars with Jar-Jar getting sliced in half by a lightsaber.

Well, I don't think Tatum was that bad in ROC. I don't think any of them were... To me it just seemed that haters needed visible focal points for their ire. I do believe that if Tatum had given the exact same performance in a totally unrelated film, it wouldn't have warrented a mention, but because he was in "GI Joe" he was held to a higher standard than usual.

[haradrel]

After pulling dog tags from one particular soldier, in a scene where Duke was but now isn't.
Flint "They're all dead."
Roadblock "We're all that's left."
Yup. nothing REMOTELY shows Duke getting killed.

So with this way of reasoning then Snake Eyes and Jinx is also dead. Since "They are all that is left".

Duke isn't dead, captured, out-cold, in pursuit of cobra or other scenario is more likely.

[fireflyguy]

We should get some guys together and break into George Lucas' mansion and watch this early.

[sparhawk]

Quite possible, however we're debating Duke not ninjas. Plus Chu already stated ninjas never die. So the red ninjas what fell off the mountain? He's ok.

[Shogi]

We should get some guys together and break into George Lucas' mansion and watch this early.

I think Peter Cullen might have some security blueprints we can use :)

[Jmacq1]

So with this way of reasoning then Snake Eyes and Jinx is also dead. Since "They are all that is left".

Duke isn't dead, captured, out-cold, in pursuit of cobra or other scenario is more likely.

No, because you have to take it in context. Duke is clearly in the scene(s) preceding the big ambush of the Joes, and a scene or two later, Roadblock, Flint, and Lady Jaye appear (key word there) to be "all that's left" (of the Joes that were present on that particular battlefield).

It is VERY easy to infer that Duke might be dead, given the way the trailer is presented. At the very least it's clear that something happens that prevents him from running around with Roadblock, Flint, and Lady Jaye.

Snake-Eyes appears to mostly be doing his own thing in the film. Maybe he's "on leave" from the Joes when the big ambush happens (he certainly doesn't appear to be present during the ambush). Or maybe he's left the Joes altogether in-between films (as he's occasionally been known to do when "Arashikage Business" starts taking center stage). But either way, when you take the line in its' presumed context, the "We're all that's left" -can- imply that Duke is (believed?) dead, while Snake-Eyes is still presumed to be alive.

[haradrel]

No, because you have to take it in context. Duke is clearly in the scene(s) preceding the big ambush of the Joes, and a scene or two later, Roadblock, Flint, and Lady Jaye appear (key word there) to be "all that's left" (of the Joes that were present on that particular battlefield).


This has just as much credibility as Duke getting captured - without actually seeing the whole scene we can only guess - which was my point all along.

"only ones left" doesn't mean everybody else is dead, it just that they are the only ones left.

[XAMOT]

Nah, he just "went into a coma".

[viper540]

Maybe snake and jinx are rescuing duke from a cobra base

[DaSmokeEater]

They're scenes from a rough cut movie, not every scene from the trailers even shows up in the final product, and words don't necessarily match the scenes they're cut into, so I wouldn't read into anything until you see the film.

Duke most likely survives because of the actor's name recognition and fan base. Who cares what the lines and circumstances are? In general you don't kill a recognized character unless it's really important to the script, and certainly not one with substantial screen time in the previous film. If 2 is a hit and there will be a 3, you have to keep your options open for the cast and not try to waste script time explaining stuff away.

It'll be cool to get some kind of Rattler type ship on screen.

I still have a real thing for Sienna Miller's Baroness, but I shall make do with just a restraining order, I suppose.

[Deathsynger]

Not sure if it's a big deal with Duke, it is just a code name. They could introduce a new Duke...

[sharky]

I still say the first rocket should have gone straight to Duke's head and remove all doubt in people's minds.

"security's early" Kablooey!

Then his eyeballs fall and get lodged in Snake Eye's visor and it's like SE has googly eyes. Then the rest of the surviving Joes all have a good chuckle at SE.

[DaSmokeEater]

But they'd have to give it a slight change, like Hawk to Tomahawk...maybe they could go from Duke to "Duke of New York- A #1!"

Not sure if it's a big deal with Duke, it is just a code name. They could introduce a new Duke...

[Jmacq1]

They're scenes from a rough cut movie, not every scene from the trailers even shows up in the final product, and words don't necessarily match the scenes they're cut into, so I wouldn't read into anything until you see the film.

Duke most likely survives because of the actor's name recognition and fan base. Who cares what the lines and circumstances are? In general you don't kill a recognized character unless it's really important to the script, and certainly not one with substantial screen time in the previous film. If 2 is a hit and there will be a 3, you have to keep your options open for the cast and not try to waste script time explaining stuff away.


Except that Duke was generally one of the least-liked things about the first movie, so it's entirely possible that Paramount and Hasbro have decided to hang the franchise on Snake-Eyes and Roadblock/The Rock instead, the latter of which has even more recognition and fanbase than Channing Tatum.

Plus, "fan base and recognition" doesn't make much sense if you're then going to sideline the character for 90 percent of the movie. If he shows up out of nowhere to save the day at the end, that's poor storytelling where the other heroes of the movie are concerned. If he's rescued but doesn't do much of anything...what's the point of putting him in the movie in the first place?

I'm not saying he's definitely dead. In fact I do agree that it's more likely he's been captured or whatever. I'm just saying it's not quite the "impossibility" that some of you seem adamantly convinced it is. Killing him would be ballsy, would shake up the old-school fans in the audience ("They actually killed Duke, no way!"), and actually makes some things easier should a third sequel get made (for instance, it's easier to re-introduce the Baroness as a bad guy if you don't even have to mention/deal with the Rex/Anna/Duke subplot). Not to mention paving the way for the generally fan-preferred Destro/Baroness relationship.

Basically, by playing off this widespread assumption of "there's no way they'd kill off the (former) leading man!" they make it have more impact if they actually do.

[gunslingercbr]

It's inferred. He's present at the massacre, Flint claims "they're all dead" and Roadblock states that they're the "last three". Obviously there's plenty of wiggle room and chance to qualify these statements later in the film, such as extra lines suggesting some are MIA.

Being inferred and actually "seeing" it as the thread states are two different things entirely.

if duke was actually killed they wouldn't infer it in the trailer they would keep it as a surprise. the fact that it is inferred is why it is clearly misdirection and why it isn't seen -- because it doesnt happen.

[gunslingercbr]

After pulling dog tags from one particular soldier, in a scene where Duke was but now isn't.
Flint "They're all dead."
Roadblock "We're all that's left."
Yup. nothing REMOTELY shows Duke getting killed.

Apparently critical thinking is difficult for you. nothing you stated is even close to actually showing duke is killed and that is you attempting to form a conclusion with what is obviously a multitude of missing information unless you think what is in the trailer is the entire battle.

[Jmacq1]

Being inferred and actually "seeing" it as the thread states are two different things entirely.

if duke was actually killed they wouldn't infer it in the trailer they would keep it as a surprise. the fact that it is inferred is why it is clearly misdirection and why it isn't seen -- because it doesnt happen.

Gosh CBR, feel free to share that copy of the finished script you've seen. It's awfully rude of you to keep it all to yourself.

[VideoViper]

I paused the trailer, It wasn't Duke he pulled the dog tags off of.
However we are meant to think Duke is dead, The reality we will find out when the movie comes out.

[DaSmokeEater]

LOL! I wouldn't say adamant or that it's impossible, but it's important to keep doors open. Let's say that pre-teen and teen girls tire of the chick who throws herself off a cliff because she chose the anemic hero over the one with a hairy back, and find a new romance movie that our pal Tatum is in and suddenly he's huge again...you'd want to have the option to bring that screaming fan base of gossip and money spenders into your bank account.

Yes it's a boy genre, but they'd see it anyways if they could see him with his shirt off.

Decisions to kill characters like that rarely work well the way we think on film, or even in print. Hama did it in the Marvel run in a few issues, but every time after that the fan backlash has been brutal and non-income generating (remember Lady Jaye's death). If you do it wrong there's a lot of backpedaling...so just do it different and don't say. Duke's scenes could easily be flip flopped in the trailer (the ROC trailer implied G.I. Joe was formed BECAUSE of the Eiffel Tower incident, remember).

You can make an entire film around Flint, Roadblock, Colton, and Lady Jaye without having to wipe the slate clean from the first film. I'm guessing that's the route they'd take.



Except that Duke was generally one of the least-liked things about the first movie, so it's entirely possible that Paramount and Hasbro have decided to hang the franchise on Snake-Eyes and Roadblock/The Rock instead, the latter of which has even more recognition and fanbase than Channing Tatum.

Plus, "fan base and recognition" doesn't make much sense if you're then going to sideline the character for 90 percent of the movie. If he shows up out of nowhere to save the day at the end, that's poor storytelling where the other heroes of the movie are concerned. If he's rescued but doesn't do much of anything...what's the point of putting him in the movie in the first place?

I'm not saying he's definitely dead. In fact I do agree that it's more likely he's been captured or whatever. I'm just saying it's not quite the "impossibility" that some of you seem adamantly convinced it is. Killing him would be ballsy, would shake up the old-school fans in the audience ("They actually killed Duke, no way!"), and actually makes some things easier should a third sequel get made (for instance, it's easier to re-introduce the Baroness as a bad guy if you don't even have to mention/deal with the Rex/Anna/Duke subplot). Not to mention paving the way for the generally fan-preferred Destro/Baroness relationship.

Basically, by playing off this widespread assumption of "there's no way they'd kill off the (former) leading man!" they make it have more impact if they actually do.

[OreoBuilder]

IMO, Hasbro wouldn't allow Duke to be killed off. He is the face of the GI Joe brand (along with SE, CC and SS). I agree with the saying that he's captured or something.

OB

[crock master]

shit, i just rememberd all the b.s. going on the tank when the roc trailer came out. here we go again.

[gijeff79]

he's somewhere in a coma

[gunslingercbr]

Gosh CBR, feel free to share that copy of the finished script you've seen. It's awfully rude of you to keep it all to yourself.

I will take that as your admittance that you cant dispute the content of my post so you will simply attempt to discredit me. is that really what you have devolved to?

I am curious how my interpretation of the fact that they dont show him die -- and that is indeed a fact -- has anything to do with the script. you dont need the script to discuss what was actually in the trailer not what was missing from the trailer. it doesnt and how embarrassing for you that you couldnt identify such a horribly specious argument.

I mean the fact that you couldnt even wrangle an argument against my position that trailers deliberately attempt to mislead audiences in these types of key story elements reveals how little logic and reason went into your post. I thought you used to be better than that.

[ntfrceshockwave]

Certain people just love to play top flight security lol

[Troops of Doom]

Duke is the most incompetent Joe in history, if anyone would die it would be him.

[Conquest1]

So I don't know if I remember correctly, but was there a comic story line that had Duke being a trader and working for Cobra?

If so, what if RB, Flint and LJ thought Duke was dead, but then all the bodies were taken by the US Government. And they kept Dukes body and some how reanimated him. I mean it looks like they did that with Storm Shadow after all. So what if the other body in the tube is Duke, referring to the guy in the white outfit with the silver visor helmet on. And they used the Doctors brainwashing capabilities like he did with the Baroness in Roc and now they're turning him against the Joes. Maybe he'll come back near the end of the movie and that could lead into the 3 installment.

Plus I would really like to know who the Red and Yellow Ninja's are that are with SE when they are zipping down the line. Jinx and Helix???? Who knows, just we'll just have to wait and see. or we just just Twitter bomb Jon Chu for an answer.

[sparhawk]

I will take that as your admittance that you cant dispute the content of my post so you will simply attempt to discredit me. is that really what you have devolved to?

I am curious how my interpretation of the fact that they dont show him die -- and that is indeed a fact -- has anything to do with the script. you dont need the script to discuss what was actually in the trailer not what was missing from the trailer. it doesnt and how embarrassing for you that you couldnt identify such a horribly specious argument.

I mean the fact that you couldnt even wrangle an argument against my position that trailers deliberately attempt to mislead audiences in these types of key story elements reveals how little logic and reason went into your post. I thought you used to be better than that.
So by your reasoning we don't see anyone die in the trailer. Then, since we can't see it, they simply must be mistaken when they say they're all dead. I gitcha now. How silly if me to infer from watching they they could, in fact, from the shown footage, off a major character, because that never happens. Ever.

[gunslingercbr]

Basically, by playing off this widespread assumption of "there's no way they'd kill off the (former) leading man!" they make it have more impact if they actually do.
that makes no sense whatsoever. One, it assumes they are playing off an assumption that actually decreases the impact that you think it makes because, two, if they are going for an impact of shock and surprise you don't even lead on that duke may die. the moment you do the audience has some expectation of it so if it occurs the impact is reduced.

your reasoning actually leads to the opposite if what you are arguing. You cant lead someone to believe something may occur and then expect it to be a shock to them if it does. this is not your finest day in reasoning.

[gunslingercbr]

So by your reasoning we don't see anyone die in the trailer. Then, since we can't see it, they simply must be mistaken when they say they're all dead. I gitcha now. How silly if me to infer from watching they they could, in fact, from the shown footage, off a major character, because that never happens. Ever.

Come on, at least make it harder on me. clearly they show dead joes so that easily shows how asinine your first point is.

and two, you seem not to grasp that words have meanings and inferring something in no way equates to it being shown. whether they show duke dead or being killed would be empirical fact and wouldnt have to be inferred and it is completely ridiculous to claim something was actually shown in the trailer that factually wasn't there just because you believe that may have been what occured in footage that isnt shown. it isnt silly of you it is outright stupid

[TheRealDubya]

He gets captured, is my guess. With Mouse.

[sparhawk]

that makes no sense whatsoever. One, it assumes they are playing off an assumption that actually decreases the impact that you think it makes because, two, if they are going for an impact of shock and surprise you don't even lead on that duke may die. the moment you do the audience has some expectation of it so if it occurs the impact is reduced.

your reasoning actually leads to the opposite if what you are arguing. You cant lead someone to believe something may occur and then expect it to be a shock to them if it does. this is not your finest day in reasoning.

Gunslingr likes making assumptions, and everyone knows what happens when you make widespread assumptions using nothing but insubstantial wording and negative meanings.And is apparently close minded in his views of major plot points in a quick trailer and independent Tanker thought. But then, I could be wrong.

[SVT_COBRA]

Gunslingr likes making assumptions, and everyone knows what happens when you make widespread assumptions using nothing but insubstantial wording and negative meanings.And is apparently close minded in his views of major plot points in a quick trailer and independent Tanker thought. But then, I could be wrong.

Most people just put that troll on ignore. Its peaceful.

[sparhawk]

Harmless fun. He has his right to post his thoughts and opinions like everyone else. However, and this just occurred to me Flint said in the trailer They're all dead. In any military unit you account for casualities. That statement would lead to believe everyone that was there not on screen, is deceased.

[1SGHauser]

Sigh... Well, if he's dead I have mixed feelings. I loathed Tatum's portayal but I love Duke. Oh well... Flint fans rejoice, but it looks like Roadblock is the new commander based on the trailer. And John McClain is in the movie. Awesome. The movie was misnamed.

G.I Joe: Die Hard.

[Jmacq1]

I will take that as your admittance that you cant dispute the content of my post so you will simply attempt to discredit me. is that really what you have devolved to?

I am curious how my interpretation of the fact that they dont show him die -- and that is indeed a fact -- has anything to do with the script. you dont need the script to discuss what was actually in the trailer not what was missing from the trailer. it doesnt and how embarrassing for you that you couldnt identify such a horribly specious argument.

I mean the fact that you couldnt even wrangle an argument against my position that trailers deliberately attempt to mislead audiences in these types of key story elements reveals how little logic and reason went into your post. I thought you used to be better than that.

This apparently isn't your best day in reading English, either. If you bother to actually read what I've posted, I have posited many times that I think it is more likely that Duke is NOT dead. What I am pointing out is that while the trailer does not definitively confirm or deny his death or capture, the inferences that can be taken from the trailer could reasonably and logically lead viewers to the conclusion that he is quite possibly killed in the ambush.

And that is a FACT that not even you can deny. The FACT that many people have in fact picked up on that inference and run with it only solidifies it. It is also a FACT that you haven't seen the finished movie or read the final script, so you cannot speak with any sort of absolute authority as to whether Duke is actually killed in the film or not, despite your valiant attempt. It was that attempt at "absolute authority" that spurred my sarcastic (something else apparently lost on you) response.

Once again, I've already stated many times that I doubt his death is the case. But since you're in extra-asshole mode today, you conveniently failed to read that, or more likely selectively ignored it. My position merely accounts for the possibility that yes, they might in fact kill Duke in this movie. Which no matter how much of an asshole you try to be, is still a possibility, even if a less-likely one.

that makes no sense whatsoever. One, it assumes they are playing off an assumption that actually decreases the impact that you think it makes because, two, if they are going for an impact of shock and surprise you don't even lead on that duke may die. the moment you do the audience has some expectation of it so if it occurs the impact is reduced.

your reasoning actually leads to the opposite if what you are arguing. You cant lead someone to believe something may occur and then expect it to be a shock to them if it does. this is not your finest day in reasoning.

Well, this isn't your finest day in comprehending plain English either, so I guess we're even.

The very notion of "killing off the main character" is inherently rejected by many people when it comes to filmmaking (yourself apparently included) and subverting that assumption has been used to considerable effect in many different films over the years. Is the mere possibility that they may employ a similar technique in the G.I. Joe sequel so astounding to you that it's beyond your intellectual capacity to comprehend? I thought you were smarter than that, but apparently not. Or maybe you just haven't watched many movies where they pull it off (or attempt to pull it off).

[Troynos]

Duke should die and no longer be a core character, then Flint can always become the leader he was meant to be.

[sparhawk]

Roadblock gave Duke The Peoples Eyebrow. It was all over after that.

[Troops of Doom]

We should have started a petition for Chu to kill off Duke once he got the job. But Hasbro has an abnormal attachment to Duke, I don't think they would ever let him die.

[1SGHauser]

Duke should die and no longer be a core character, then Flint can always become the leader he was meant to be.

Except is looks like he'll be answering to Roadblock in the movie. So you got that going for you.

[Troynos]

Except is looks like he'll be answering to Roadblock in the movie. So you got that going for you.

That is kind of weird and goes against the established mythos.

It's understandable from a marketing standpoint. It is the Rock playing Roadblock afterall.

But then the RoC-verse, of which Retaliation is part, isn't the ARAH/Resolute/Renegades canon, so in that 'verse, it's okay that Roadblock is in charge.

[Jmacq1]

That is kind of weird and goes against the established mythos.

It's understandable from a marketing standpoint. It is the Rock playing Roadblock afterall.

But then the RoC-verse, of which Retaliation is part, isn't the ARAH/Resolute/Renegades canon, so in that 'verse, it's okay that Roadblock is in charge.

I don't even know that we could say Roadblock is "in charge" per se. He's clearly a leader-figure, but that could be more from the perspective of him being the "veteran NCO type" rather than the technical leader (He described the Roadblock character as supposed to be the "heart and soul" of the team). Kinda like how Stalker often seemed like he was in charge in the old comics even when folks that technically outranked him were often around (Except Hawk...he pretty much always deferred to Hawk). He's the guy everyone looks up to and respects, basically.

Heck, maybe Flint's character arc in the movie involves him growing accustomed to a leadership role, with Roadrock's encouragement and support. He's probably gotta have -some- arc beyond the almost certain "hook up with Lady Jaye" arc.

[Wylde Weezle]

The attack happens at night, we see the survivors crawling out of their recovery spots hours later during the day. Plenty of possibilities with what happens to Duke.

[gunslingercbr]

This apparently isn't your best day in reading English, either. If you bother to actually read what I've posted, I have posited many times that I think it is more likely that Duke is NOT dead.

whether you believe he is likely not dead has nothing to do with the flaw of your attempted dispute of my post.


What I am pointing out is that while the trailer does not definitively confirm or deny his death or capture, the inferences that can be taken from the trailer could reasonably and logically lead viewers to the conclusion that he is quite possibly killed in the ambush.

I haven't denied the inference is there. I am denying that the inference means he is dead and instead is misdirection.


And that is a FACT that not even you can deny. The FACT that many people have in fact picked up on that inference and run with it only solidifies it.
again, haven't denied that people have inferred it. I'm not sure how you can even attempt to interpret my argument as disputing that it is inferred by simply disputing that it is not shown and thus no one has seen it.


It is also a FACT that you haven't seen the finished movie or read the final script, so you cannot speak with any sort of absolute authority as to whether Duke is actually killed in the film or not, despite your valiant attempt. It was that attempt at "absolute authority" that spurred my sarcastic (something else apparently lost on you) response.
that is because my post wasn't dependent on knowing the movie for fact, simply interpreting the events of the trailer, just as those people who think he is dead are interpreting it. this is basic argument and debate -- whose argument is more grounded in reality, logic and reason. we'll know that for certain when the movie comes out, but that doesn't mean you can't argue it beforehand. this is basic argument and debate 101, you should know that.

you of all people shouldn't be having trouble with this. that is why I am so disappointed in the quality of your argument.


Once again, I've already stated many times that I doubt his death is the case. But since you're in extra-asshole mode today, you conveniently failed to read that, or more likely selectively ignored it. My position merely accounts for the possibility that yes, they might in fact kill Duke in this movie. Which no matter how much of an asshole you try to be, is still a possibility, even if a less-likely one.

of course it is possible, that isn't what is being argued. what is being argued is whether the trailer shows that he is dead, which is a definitive conclusion, not a possibility. I'm not sure how you are missing that very obvious argument.



The very notion of "killing off the main character" is inherently rejected by many people when it comes to filmmaking (yourself apparently included) and subverting that assumption has been used to considerable effect in many different films over the years. Is the mere possibility that they may employ a similar technique in the G.I. Joe sequel so astounding to you that it's beyond your intellectual capacity to comprehend? I thought you were smarter than that, but apparently not. Or maybe you just haven't watched many movies where they pull it off (or attempt to pull it off).
whether a main character dies in a movie is not the same thing as whether trailers give away that or whether hinting at it makes it more shocking. again, you have made an irrelevant argument while ignoring my explicit dispute of your position -- that if you were attempting to shock the audience with a character's death actually presenting them with it before they see the movie reduces that shock.

the impact is only meaningful if it is a surprise when you see the movie, not whether you are guessing whether or not it will occur.

[gunslingercbr]

Harmless fun. He has his right to post his thoughts and opinions like everyone else. However, and this just occurred to me Flint said in the trailer They're all dead. In any military unit you account for casualities. That statement would lead to believe everyone that was there not on screen, is deceased.
I don't appreciate you keeping this light-hearted and reducing the veracity in which I attack your argument.

the issue is this. the statement "they are all dead" would refer to everyone that is dead at the scene. it wouldn't apply to any Joes that escaped or were captured, he is clearly talking about every Joe that is present that he can verify as dead.

if Duke isn't present, the comment doesn't apply to him.

[Troynos]

I don't even know that we could say Roadblock is "in charge" per se. He's clearly a leader-figure, but that could be more from the perspective of him being the "veteran NCO type" rather than the technical leader (He described the Roadblock character as supposed to be the "heart and soul" of the team). Kinda like how Stalker often seemed like he was in charge in the old comics even when folks that technically outranked him were often around (Except Hawk...he pretty much always deferred to Hawk). He's the guy everyone looks up to and respects, basically.

Heck, maybe Flint's character arc in the movie involves him growing accustomed to a leadership role, with Roadrock's encouragement and support. He's probably gotta have -some- arc beyond the almost certain "hook up with Lady Jaye" arc.

True.

It looks like Roadblock, Flint and Lady Jaye are the focal characters with Snake-Eyes and Jinx doing their own thing.

[Firefly77]

I think he's just dead in the foreign version. In the U.S. release he's just stabbed in the heart and goes into a coma.

[Darth_Risar]

Or Duke has his face messed up and needs plastic surgery and a new actor is given the role for G.I. Joe 3.

[Darth_Risar]

Didn't they kill off the main character in Iron Eagle 2 in the first fifteen minutes?

[kneroh]

Didn't they kill off the main character in Iron Eagle 2 in the first fifteen minutes?

They did. But he came back for Iron Eagle 4 (different actor). Doug Masters is OK!

[Ska_lives]

I don't appreciate you keeping this light-hearted and reducing the veracity in which I attack your argument.

the issue is this. the statement "they are all dead" would refer to everyone that is dead at the scene. it wouldn't apply to any Joes that escaped or were captured, he is clearly talking about every Joe that is present that he can verify as dead.

if Duke isn't present, the comment doesn't apply to him.

Hmm, lets see.
A. We see Duke at the site where all hell breaks loose.
B. Everyone is dead, so they say...we see no more Duke.
C. THe trailer was great after that point!

Now on your end of the argument, we see no tangible/ visible proof that Duke was offed in the firefight.

However, this can also be applied to the opposite viewpoint as well, where as no actual evidence or proof is given to say that he survived.

Also, you say that all viewpoints but yours are invalid on the sole reason that this is a teaser trailer and that the powers that be are using misdirection to throw us off the scent.

As a rebuttal, your own defense can be used on you as well. You've heard of "double agents" (I'm sure there is a grammatical term for this as well, yet I sadly cannot think of it right now) this is the directorial version of this. Did you not pause for one moment in your vehement trolling to think that just as likely as you are right you are also that likely to be wrong?

For sure the track record for the character of Duke, and the lines boner for him, give his odds of survival a hefty backing. Yet, since as you have also mentioned, this is a teaser trailer and we DON'T know what happened to anyone other than those shown, so all one can do is make inferences. Thus those who think Duke is deceased have their information just as validated as your own.

Myself, prefer not to jump to any conclusions, but tend to base my own assumptions on plot devices used in the past and go with the possibility of Duke being captured, or lost in the desert.
But hey, I didn't see it so it didn't happen right?

[gunslingercbr]

Hmm, lets see.
A. We see Duke at the site where all hell breaks loose.
B. Everyone is dead, so they say...we see no more Duke.
C. THe trailer was great after that point!

Now on your end of the argument, we see no tangible/ visible proof that Duke was offed in the firefight.

However, this can also be applied to the opposite viewpoint as well, where as no actual evidence or proof is given to say that he survived.

Also, you say that all viewpoints but yours are invalid on the sole reason that this is a teaser trailer and that the powers that be are using misdirection to throw us off the scent.

As a rebuttal, your own defense can be used on you as well. You've heard of "double agents" (I'm sure there is a grammatical term for this as well, yet I sadly cannot think of it right now) this is the directorial version of this. Did you not pause for one moment in your vehement trolling to think that just as likely as you are right you are also that likely to be wrong?

For sure the track record for the character of Duke, and the lines boner for him, give his odds of survival a hefty backing. Yet, since as you have also mentioned, this is a teaser trailer and we DON'T know what happened to anyone other than those shown, so all one can do is make inferences. Thus those who think Duke is deceased have their information just as validated as your own.

Myself, prefer not to jump to any conclusions, but tend to base my own assumptions on plot devices used in the past and go with the possibility of Duke being captured, or lost in the desert.
But hey, I didn't see it so it didn't happen right?

I didn't say they were invalid, just not the likely outcome so you haven't thrown my argument back at me at all. that is the entire point of arguing, who can create the best argument to support their position and then back it up with direct facts or relevant examples that can apply.

you certainly can assume Duke is dead, but the weakness of that is the fact that so much information is missing and everyone is dead can mean multiple things. it certainly doesn't mean every G.I. Joe, because not every G.I. Joe was there. it could mean every G.I. Joe that was present prior to the battle, which would include Duke, but that would assume simply that nobody else escaped or was captured.

the dialogue means something specific -- every Joe that is currently their, besides them, is dead. that is the only thing they could have any confirmation of. the question becomes, where is Duke. how convenient that they leave that information out of it.

[CaptThunderLion]

That's NOT DUKE. Freeze frame at 1:12 the person laying there has heavier sideburns than Channing Tatum

[sharky]

Actually, he got hit with Cobra's newest sideburn ray. It gives you sideburns. Then it just gives you burns. Then you die.

[CrimsonGuard101]

That's NOT DUKE. Freeze frame at 1:12 the person laying there has heavier sideburns than Channing Tatum

Thats Duke in his covert mode as Tunnel Rat...

[Tanksmasher]

Killing off Duke might actually be a good thing. Besides, I got the sense from an interview that Tatum wasn't excited about doing another Joe film.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Killing off Duke might actually be a good thing. Besides, I got the sense from an interview that Tatum wasn't excited about doing another Joe film.

Thats how high demand actors demand more money....especially for sequals...I mean Joe has to be better then steup to da streets 10 yo

[Ska_lives]

I didn't say they were invalid, just not the likely outcome so you haven't thrown my argument back at me at all. that is the entire point of arguing, who can create the best argument to support their position and then back it up with direct facts or relevant examples that can apply.

you certainly can assume Duke is dead, but the weakness of that is the fact that so much information is missing and everyone is dead can mean multiple things. it certainly doesn't mean every G.I. Joe, because not every G.I. Joe was there. it could mean every G.I. Joe that was present prior to the battle, which would include Duke, but that would assume simply that nobody else escaped or was captured.

the dialogue means something specific -- every Joe that is currently their, besides them, is dead. that is the only thing they could have any confirmation of. the question becomes, where is Duke. how convenient that they leave that information out of it.

Hmm, I have, after reading your most eloquent reply, not seen you bring anything to the table that supports either sides claim. I just see a rehashing of the same weak argument. Admittedly, my own previous reply was also just speculation. The difference, however, was that it was geared more towards pointing out the fallacies in the stances of both sides.
So it really just goes to say that the only one arguing is you. I'm just looking at both sides and the justification of their points of view.

[gunslingercbr]

Hmm, I have, after reading your most eloquent reply, not seen you bring anything to the table that supports either sides claim. I just see a rehashing of the same weak argument. Admittedly, my own previous reply was also just speculation. The difference, however, was that it was geared more towards pointing out the fallacies in the stances of both sides.
So it really just goes to say that the only one arguing is you. I'm just looking at both sides and the justification of their points of view.

when you can actually show why it is a weak argument, not simply state is is a weak argument, you may have a point.

[SonOfMindbender]

If they kill off Duke... I'll stand up and cheer just like I did when Vincent Vega shot Marvin in the face (1994 joke.) Sick and twisted?...Yes. Funny as hell?...Yes!! Win, Win!!

[JoeMama]

I think the red head walking up the stairs in the evening gown may turn out to be Scarlett, just a different actress. She's shown in two momentary clips, they wouldn't do that for no reason.

I do believe, however that Duke and the rest of the joes are killed off, at least thats the impression that the trailer gives me, anyway.

that's lady jaye, just in disguise.

[Ska_lives]

when you can actually show why it is a weak argument, not simply state is is a weak argument, you may have a point.

Pray tell, how would one go about pointing out it's weaknesses, when it has no visible strengths to speak of? It just stands on conjecture and speculation alone.

[Kungfuguy]

I highly doubt Hasbro would allow Duke to die. They learned their lesson when Optimus Prime died in the original movie. They even killed Prime in TF2 and brought him back. Duke is the poster boy for joe. Even though he's hated by 30 year old fan boys. And a kid wouldn't even know what a Duke is.

[gunslingercbr]

Pray tell, how would one go about pointing out it's weaknesses, when it has no visible strengths to speak of? It just stands on conjecture and speculation alone.

do tell what is conjecture about the fact that Duke isn't shown dying in the trailer, shown dead, or stated to be dead?

[ShadowNinja]

Cant believe you are arguing about two minutes worth of footage. Duke could have been off to the side when Flint said that. You guys are analyzing it to much. Cant even see what the dog tags say. They could just be dog tags of unknown just put there to add dramatic insight like a "Lets revenge these guys" sort of deal. maybe your seeing what you want to see. Even though Channing isn't a A list actor he still has had some movies that make him popular. Dont think they would just kill him off, he is Duke, and he played a major part of the last movie which this is suppose to be a "sequal" to.

[Ska_lives]

do tell what is conjecture about the fact that Duke isn't shown dying in the trailer, shown dead, or stated to be dead?

Well, I will be the first to admit that my first post in the thread leans towards my opinion of him just Bering MIA or captured. The reasoning behind all of this is simple. Neither of us can make a definitive statement on Duke's whereabouts or condition due to the lack of information given. You say that it does not show him dead nor mention it, while I point out that this argument can be used to the same effect towards the other stance. Since it cannot be determined definitively for either group it leaves it solely to the realm of speculation.
That being said it has been a great time, more or less debating like trial lawyers over a couple minutes of footage!

[Knight Raven]

I think that not all the Joes were killed in the attack but some escaped to regroup somewhere else. Roadblock and the others just see dead bodies and destruction and not much else.
You see them pulling dogtags but they figured ones they didn't get were incinerated or just went missing in explosions while actually they got away to hide and regroup(Maybe thinking Roadblock and the others are dead).
Kinda reminds me of the storyline in the GI Joe episode "Worlds Without End"

[Python_Puckman]

Duke is dead??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Nope. Just Bazooka again

[The Wrath]

I love all this speculation of the film. Proof that they are doing something right for Retaliation.

[firefly069]

I love all this speculation of the film. Proof that they are doing something right for Retaliation.

agreed! I am not sure how good this will be but, I am sure it won't be worse than ROC.

[red4]

Duke is dead???

Was he ever really alive?

[vermillion21]

I hope Duke dies.

[ruven]

Duke gets captured by CC in order to have Mindbender use Duke as the host for his Serpentor experiment.
By the end of the movie Duke is turned into Serpentor and defeats the Joes.

Then in the third movie they can save and revert Duke back to his normal form as the Joes take back the White House from the Cobra party.

[DrFever]

Duke can't die, he only goes into comas.

[red4]

Duke gets captured by CC in order to have Mindbender use Duke as the host for his Serpentor experiment.
By the end of the movie Duke is turned into Serpentor and defeats the Joes.

Then in the third movie they can save and revert Duke back to his normal form as the Joes take back the White House from the Cobra party.

Do I sense a bit of Star Wars in there?

[crock master]

out of all the retaliation threads that spawnd from the trailer, and this is the only one that the mod's didnt delete.

[Shipshape1983]

Storm Shadow seemed to have burst out of some kind of incubation tank.

I wouldnt be surprised if Duke emerges from a similar tank, but nows he's been brainwashed to be evil..

[mattymatt]

The duke i remember took a venimous snake to the heart and lived, so maybe they do kill him and introduce his half brother falcon looking for revenge on rex/CC

[darthmaul1]

We will have to wait and see, maybe he is just injured and can't help after the attack. but IMO there are sooo many characters they can afford to put some in and take some out. These movies, are not just for Fanboys they have to be made for a wider audience (even people that never saw or read GI JOE). The only characters i really remembered when they announced the first movie was, Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Cobra commander, Destro, and Zartan. IMO all the other joes are easily replaced except Snake eyes.