What degree of realism would you like to see in new Joe comics?

[Tanksmasher]

I admit, I'm a stickler for realism. I like films like Black Hawk Down and Band of Brothers because they illustrate war in a gritty, confused, non-romantic light while focusing on the people and the harsh reality of combat. Granted, I don't expect that degree of realism from comics and some suspension of disbelief is required, but I always get irritated when the imagination gets stretched into absurdity. Take one of the new comic pack issues for example. In issue #9 "Explosive Thoughts," a gigantic missile gets lodged in a stasis field over the Joe HQ and Tripwire attempts to deactivate it. The concept is so far-fetched that it simply loses my interest, never mind the fact that stasis fields seem more appropriate in a Star Wars setting (probably why I didn't like the old Joe toons as much; the laser guns and the fact that no one died was distracting).

Why not just tell a story of the Joes getting pinned down under Cobra fire out in the field and a smart bomb gets dropped nearby but doesn't explode and Tripwire is called upon to disarm it. This is more plausible, convinces the readers, and doesn't require silly antics. Secondly, why is Cobra so moronic? The fact that Dr Mindbender builds CC an exploding helmet makes them seem so ridiculous that the story never builds suspense--it's just art on a page with no plot. Is it really that difficult to make them intelligent, cunning, resourceful and dangerous. I like it when the bad guys win sometimes. Anyway, just thought I'd start with that... I'll have a few more comments about past comic stories that did have the kind of realism that I like and some that didn't.

[TheLongestDay]

the great thing about GI JOE is that it can be interpreted both ways-fantasy/sci fi or gritty/realism...and enjoy it both ways

[Headman]

Because kids don't wanna play with action figures from a depressing movie.

[Freedom]

I think the comics in the comic packs are supposed to be silly and light hearted for the kids. Hama has the ability to write some pretty mature stories.

I like a good mix of reality and fantasy. Basically if there is a fantasy element, give a realistic explanation of why it can happen.

[katcountrydean]

i think your missing the point of comics, its supposed to be surreal. otherwise your just reading a history book on war... i think most people, including kids, get that... my dad used to tell me the story about how he used to walk 2 miles up hill both ways to get to school ...Why??? ... because a story about him walking a block on a nice day is boring...

[Headman]

my dad used to tell me the story about how he used to walk 2 miles up hill both ways to get to school ...Why??? ... because a story about him walking a block on a nice day is boring...

Not if he added in a car chase and some explosions.

[Spoondini]

Not if he added in a car chase and some explosions.
then you dad would be Micheal Bay

[Headman]

lol nicely done.

[Saboteur]

Realism where someone gets killed or at least shot in every issue. Cobra soldier fodder if nothing else. I like where resolute is going. Did you see Snake Eyes twist his sword in that guys back? I loved it!
Sab

[minstrelboy]

Yeah, there's a line. The original Joe series by Hama was good, and well-balanced between realism and fantasy. Subsequent issues by DD were more realistic, and well done. The new Hama stories seem to lack something. Less substance, maybe? Not as well thought out? And the Tripwire/CC issue was more like the cartoon series than the comic.

[Shin Densetsu]

I doubt that the new IDW comic is made to sell toys, so I'm not that worried. Now the comic packs, yea those I'd be worried about, but not the IDW book, its a completely different ball game.

[PathFinder]

Without the Sci-Fi Fantasy element, I think our Joe adventures would become boring. I also love realism, in detail of characters, weapons, vehicles, environments... but without the far-fetched concepts, as in characters like Destro, Zartan, Darklon, The BATS and so on, the Joe stories would be all too real. If you want real, just flip on the tv or read the paper.

Your not gonna see anyone on the news whose skin can change colors to blend in with the environment while riding a swamp skier wearing a cool hood...!

I like the idea that characters and details like technology can be strange (probably wouldn't work in real life) but can be made to look detailed enough so that it is believable, at least in some ways.

Also some violence is needed to express realism, but too much can be too much. An old philosophy in graphic storytelling in representing a fight scene is to show the moment before the punch, or the moment after the punch, but never the moment of the punch. Why? Because we don't need to see that to know it actually happened, and it leaves something for the imagination. Also it makes us appreciate it more.

The imagination can be powerful if we're permitted to use it.

My Two.

PF

[Bulletrider]

I´m somewhat between two chairs (do you say that in that way? don´t know... I´m from germany ;-) ) regarding the style of joe comics.
In my mind GI Joe is deeply connected to my childhood in the 80s, collecting the figures, watching the cartoons (though I didn´t understand that much as it was in english and I was eight, nine years old) and all was about colourful fun, action, ninjas and the flair of all eighties action stuff hang in the air. Meaning - massive action, bullets and explosions everywhere but noone was seriously harmed, just like in A-Team, Knight Rider and all the glorious 80s stuff ;-)

Just like in this pic (one of the new IDW)
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2889/gijoe0dq6.jpg

And this is what I mainly expect from a Joe comic -colourful action, the more characters used the better it is. I´m not a fan of a restricted rooster.

At least these are my main thoughts about a Joe comic coming to my mind first - BUT after following the Image/DDP line the last years I must admit that more serious stories (with characters dying etc.) and more "realistic" (as realistic as it can go when talking about super-soldiers, Ninjas, BATs etc.) storylines are also a very good style of telling joe stories.

So I personally would hope that IDW brings a bit more fun and colour back to the Joes but I would also accept a more serious approach as long as it still has some of the scifi/fantasy aspects.

[Tanksmasher]

Ok, so I'm revisiting this thread because I just read the Scrap Iron & Wild Bill comic #12 and was starting to enjoy it until Wild Bill whips out his pistols and sucessfully deflects Scrap Iron's missile with some well-placed shots.

I know, I know, it's fantasy, it's a comic book, blah blah blah, but my beef with this comic isn't about fantasy in general. It has to deal with sustaining a DEGREE of realism. One of the reasons I can't stand the Star Wars prequels is that the Jedi became a kind of invincible superhero with almost limitless powers. They could practically fly and do just about anything with the Force. And this kills suspense because the characters are not as vulnerable as say Luke Skywalker was in the OTC. Granted he was young and learning the Force, but he had limits, and he was vulnerable.

Plus, the powers of the prequel Jedi were inconsistent: they could hurl themselves hundreds of feet through the air, but when Obi wan almost falls into a pit and loses his lightsabre, he's unable to simply summon the little bugger back into his hand. I think you see where I'm going with this...

Anyway, using a handgun to shoot a rocket just crosses the line for me. I could criticize this comic for a number of aviation-related details that Hama gets wrong, but I recogize the limits of his knowledge on this subject. However, shooting a rocket with two pistols kills all suspense and interest because it means these guys can do absolutely anything! Why not make it even more absurd and have him lasso the damn thing and sling it back toward the enemy or maybe jump on and ride it for 8 seconds like some kind of Rocket Bullrider.

I really hope that the new comics don't go this route. So far I still have high hopes. Keepin the fingers crossed.

[Captain STEVEN DePACE]

I admit, I'm a stickler for realism. I like films like Black Hawk Down and Band of Brothers because they illustrate war in a gritty, confused, non-romantic light while focusing on the people and the harsh reality of combat. Granted, I don't expect that degree of realism from comics and some suspension of disbelief is required, but I always get irritated when the imagination gets stretched into absurdity. Take one of the new comic pack issues for example. In issue #9 "Explosive Thoughts," a gigantic missile gets lodged in a stasis field over the Joe HQ and Tripwire attempts to deactivate it. The concept is so far-fetched that it simply loses my interest, never mind the fact that stasis fields seem more appropriate in a Star Wars setting (probably why I didn't like the old Joe toons as much; the laser guns and the fact that no one died was distracting).

Why not just tell a story of the Joes getting pinned down under Cobra fire out in the field and a smart bomb gets dropped nearby but doesn't explode and Tripwire is called upon to disarm it. This is more plausible, convinces the readers, and doesn't require silly antics. Secondly, why is Cobra so moronic? The fact that Dr Mindbender builds CC an exploding helmet makes them seem so ridiculous that the story never builds suspense--it's just art on a page with no plot. Is it really that difficult to make them intelligent, cunning, resourceful and dangerous. I like it when the bad guys win sometimes. Anyway, just thought I'd start with that... I'll have a few more comments about past comic stories that did have the kind of realism that I like and some that didn't.

G.I. Joe is for children

[CaptainDinobot]

I would prefer not to have anything completely absurd happen but I don't want total realism either. There's no reason for Han Solo or Luke Skywalker to have died in Star Wars and that's how I feel about the main characters of GI Joe. I'd rather Duke and Flint have the "character shields" protecting them and get out of situations they never would in real life over the whole team being dead by the time the comic ends.

[Tanksmasher]

...

[Tanksmasher]

So you must be a child then?

[Freedom]

I´m somewhat between two chairs (do you say that in that way? don´t know... I´m from germany ;-) ) regarding the style of joe comics.
Between two chairs = On the fence - Can go either way

[Zartanman]

Yeah, there's a line. The original Joe series by Hama was good, and well-balanced between realism and fantasy. Subsequent issues by DD were more realistic, and well done. The new Hama stories seem to lack something. Less substance, maybe? Not as well thought out? And the Tripwire/CC issue was more like the cartoon series than the comic.

I felt a grave disturbance in the force.... when you said that.. The thought occurred to me... what if all the Great Writers from the 80's who influenced our lives to such an extent all lost their talent just like G. Lucas did.... Perish the thought!

[Captain STEVEN DePACE]

So you must be a child then?

No, but I don't expect Hasbro too cater to adults buying children's toys' desire to see REAL ASS ARMY GUYS DOING REAL ASS ARMY STUFF

[Tanksmasher]

Unfortunately that's exactly what they're doing. Didn't you see the Resolute trailer where SE executes a soldier with his sword and gives it a morbid twist. C'mon, you're being disingenuous. They want to cater to a wide age group because that brings in the most money. It's marketing 101, dude. If you want absurdity and low levels of realism in your comics, which is what this thread is about, then fine. I like some fantasy but not when it starts to "jump the shark" or "nuke the fridge".

[Tanksmasher]

I didn't say I wanted to see Saving Private Ryan in GI Joe. What I want is a certain level of realism or plausible action. Shooting down rockets with a Colt doesn't qualify.

[Skyhawk]

I'm hopeful with the new comic. I love realism in my Joe's. Now weapons that are advanced, thats cool. There are thing out there we done know about yet anyway.... but laser guns and crap like that is just stupid.

I missed the one with Wild Bill gunning down the missiles. Thats just retarded!!!

[Nemesis*Prime]

One of the reasons I like G.I. Joe is that the story concept always seems to be 50/50 in terms of military realism and military sci-fi. In other words the writers (whether for the comic or animation) seemed to keep an even balance. In fact you could say that the Joes and COBRA represent two halves of that equation. The Joes are mostly presented as a modern, realistic, American military force while COBRA is an almost pure sci-fi, comic book, futuristic, terrorist organization.

[Zoltron]

Realism where someone gets killed or at least shot in every issue. Cobra soldier fodder if nothing else. I like where resolute is going. Did you see Snake Eyes twist his sword in that guys back? I loved it!
Sab

I'd love to see some dialogue between the Cobra troops in the new comic. Remember "Wizards"? When the gas mask trooper got shot and the guy kept saying, "Fritz oh god fritz!". Pretty much, I want to see a human element in Cobra and even faceless soldiers who get killed every issue may be as bonded as the joe team.

Without the Sci-Fi Fantasy element, I think our Joe adventures would become boring. I also love realism, in detail of characters, weapons, vehicles, environments... but without the far-fetched concepts, as in characters like Destro, Zartan, Darklon, The BATS and so on, the Joe stories would be all too real. If you want real, just flip on the tv or read the paper.

Your not gonna see anyone on the news whose skin can change colors to blend in with the environment while riding a swamp skier wearing a cool hood...!


Thats what made gi joe great. At least when I was a kid, I thought that all the fantasy concepts made the stuff. It was the military stuff I had been exposed to growing up, but a thousand times better. They had monsters, futuristic troops, robots, mutants, and kick ass females.

One of the reasons I like G.I. Joe is that the story concept always seems to be 50/50 in terms of military realism and military sci-fi. In other words the writers (whether for the comic or animation) seemed to keep an even balance. In fact you could say that the Joes and COBRA represent two halves of that equation. The Joes are mostly presented as a modern, realistic, American military force while COBRA is an almost pure sci-fi, comic book, futuristic, terrorist organization.

I think Joe is half and half. I mean I don't think the real military would allow guys like Spirit, Ozone, Wild Bill, and Sci fi to go out into battle in those ridiculous duds. But it gives the characters substance and makes them marketable. I do think there needs to be some basis in reality. Hence, the reason why the joes have realistic tanks and Cobra has sci fi stuff.

The ninjas have their own storylines. The soldiers have their own and Raptor and Croc Master are still looking for Conan. But as for gi joe being sci fi. I think it was influenced by James Bond and other earlier serials where you have a "rogues gallery" of villains. Sure, Cobra Commander looks cool. But then you have Destro, Baroness, Xamot/Tomax, Maj. Bludd etc. All contrast the gi joe team. I think the villains sell the series though. But thats just my opinion.

[Captain STEVEN DePACE]

Unfortunately that's exactly what they're doing. Didn't you see the Resolute trailer where SE executes a soldier with his sword and gives it a morbid twist. C'mon, you're being disingenuous. They want to cater to a wide age group because that brings in the most money. It's marketing 101, dude. If you want absurdity and low levels of realism in your comics, which is what this thread is about, then fine. I like some fantasy but not when it starts to "jump the shark" or "nuke the fridge".

Resolute is 5 minutes long and on the INTERNET

[Tanksmasher]

Resolute is 5 minutes long and on the INTERNET
And your point is?

Resolute will eventually be over an hour long when it's complete, and Hasbro has been releasing toys based on adult collectors, as you very well know.

[delta]

I'd love to see GI.Joe be a full on blood and guts fest, but I know why it won't. I understand why it can't be, but I'd still like to see it done that way sometime.

[Tanksmasher]

I'd love to see GI.Joe be a full on blood and guts fest, but I know why it won't. I understand why it can't be, but I'd still like to see it done that way sometime.
Yeah, it's not that I want it to be super gritty and bloody. I just want them to remove some of the absurdity. Make the Joes a little more human and limit their abilities. As I've said in another thread, Snake Eyes has become the Batman of GI Joe--the masked man in black with razor-edge accuracy and supernatural skills. Of course, all action is far-fetched but I hope we don't see him slicing up two dozen Vipers while dodging machine gun fire and grenades.