What If Snake-Eyes Didn't Exist?

[Freedom]

In the Marvel series, Snake-Eyes was pretty much the hub of the Joe verse.

What if Snake-Eyes didn't exist?
1) Storm-Shadow wouldn't have met him in Viet-Nam
a. Storm Shadow wouldn't have invited him to "join the family business"
b. Cobra Commander wouldn't have sent Firefly then Zartan to kill Snake-Eyes
c. Zartan wouldn't have accidentally killed the Hard Master.
d. Prof. Onahashi, the sword smith, wouldn't have committed hari kari.
e. Zartan wouldn't have killed The Blind Master.
f. Storm Shadow wouldn't have joined Cobra to find out the identity of his uncle's killer.
g. Without Storm Shadow to rescue him, Billy would have been executed.
h. The Soft Master wouldn't have been in Springfield to be killed by Scrap-Iron.
i. The Red Ninjas may have not separated from the Arashakage clan

2) Stalker wouldn't have met him in Viet Nam
a) Stalker wouldn't have asked him to Join the G.I.Joe team.
b) Scarlett may have died in the helicopter crash that disfigured Snake-Eyes.
c) If Scarlett did survive, she may have gone on to have a perfectly healthy relationship with a nice normal man. lol
d) Several Joes may be dead w/o Snake-Eyes to save them, i.e. Stalker, Gung-Ho, and Breaker in #12.

3) Snake-Eyes parents wouldn't have been on the road to the airport to pick him up.
a) Cobra Commander's brother, Dan, wouldn't have gotten into the car accident that killed him and them. Although, I think he probably would have had an accident with somebody else.
b) The death of CC's bro seemed to be the catalyst that pushed him over the edge. CC would have found an excuse sooner or later.

4) Snake-Eyes wouldn't have been in Viet-Nam and tried to save the Baroness's brother to have her think he was the killer. The Baroness probably would have been bad anyway.

5) We'd never have wondered what that "thing in his boot" was that Breaker referred to in #3.

6) All the Cobras that Snake-Eyes killed may be alive! (DD brought half of them back anyway!)

I know there wouldn't have been much of a story, but I always like to have fun with "What If's"

[spacemonkeymafia]

Nice a Time Paradox thingy...........and you forgot about Timber...what would have happened to him.......

[Freedom]

Nice a Time Paradox thingy...........and you forgot about Timber...what would have happened to him.......
Timber really never played a big part in the Marvel series. Timber would have just lived out his days in the High Sierras.

[spacemonkeymafia]

Yeah but some big Game Hunter could have shot him.........All kidding aside I dig the topic.....

[TheLongestDay]

If snake eyes didnt exist id bet a huge chunk of the Joe fanbase wouldnt exist

[fred V]

there would be more room on the pegs for bats and battle armor cc....

[Monkeywrench]

there would be more room on the pegs for bats and battle armor cc....

lol

[Tunnel Rat]

if snake eyes didnt exist then hasbro wouldnt be able to put a snake eyes in almost every wave.....lol

[Headman]

If Snake Eyes didn't exist I'd probably be annoyed with some other character who I find completely un-interesting while others go bananas over him.

[Magick]

When you take out one equation from existance, it changes everything within that timeline, but since it never existed for us to know about it wouldn't matter. Right?

[crock master]

then no one would have an army of snake eyes

[sgtapon]

we wouldn't have 30 different version of snake eyes in which i'm guessing at least half are just repaints

[Gung.Heaux]

i guess idve had to use snow job on this.

[Cole3388]

I guess you always have to have an antagonist. It would be cool if more than one could have been worked into the comic series.

[Unclassified]

Nice a Time Paradox thingy...........and you forgot about Timber...what would have happened to him.......

timber wouldve still been in the bear trap an ended up killed!! or got away wit three legs!

[HissCommander]

if he didnt exist then who would hasbro put in every wave of 25th figures?

[Unclassified]

i guess idve had to use snow job on this.

yo jus thought of that last night man, was thinkin where can i get a damn bear from, sweet bro thats sick i was jus plannin that last night where you get that bear?

[Imperial_Ozma]

if he didnt exist then who would hasbro put in every wave of 25th figures?

There's still Duke and Cobra Commander.

[Imperial_Ozma]

yo jus thought of that last night man, was thinkin where can i get a damn bear from, sweet bro thats sick i was jus plannin that last night where you get that bear?

If you don't mind me answering this one, that's from The Golden Compass toyline (awesome book, pretty good movie).

[darthdoug]

If Snake Eyes wouldn't have existed then:

* Timber dies in the cold (Trapped in the bear trap)
* The army sends another soldier named "EARL" in his place on the helicopter.
* Earl goes on to do everything SE would have done.
* Instead of Snake Eyes being included in every wave we would have EARL figures in every wave.

Because everything is pre-destined... Earl would carry the GI Joe story line.

[PathFinder]

What can I say?

Who can resist a dude with a black mask and an uzi and a sword? A man of mystery! What does he look like under that black and evil mask?

Did he scare you as much as he scared me???

-Bill Murray

[Unclassified]

If you don't mind me answering this one, that's from The Golden Compass toyline (awesome book, pretty good movie).

thats sweet im gonna have to look in to this one this the second time i heard bout this golden compase

[spacemonkeymafia]

If Snake Eyes wouldn't have existed then:

* Timber dies in the cold (Trapped in the bear trap)
* The army sends another soldier named "EARL" in his place on the helicopter.
* Earl goes on to do everything SE would have done.
* Instead of Snake Eyes being included in every wave we would have EARL figures in every wave.

Because everything is pre-destined... Earl would carry the GI Joe story line.

I want this Earl dude..where can I get him?

[Monkeywrench]

I wonder if GI Joe would have been as popular without SE?

[Zefram]

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy302/zeframmann/necropost/Necropost.jpg

[Zartanman]

If Snake Eyes Didnt exist take the amount of Snake Eyes figures produced and add that number to Duke Figures... Do we REALLY Want to think about that world? DO WE? REALLY? LOL

Fun topic though and great timeline.

[SteelersMobat]

It would have been much like the early story lines where Snake Eyes was still being developed, or maybe like the cartoon. Joe would have been more unit based, focusing on team dynamics, and military tactics, until one of the charecters became Rambo like, or Duke became Sgt. Rock, or duke became the focus like in the cartoon, or Hawk or Flint became the dynamic team leader. I think no SE would have hurt Hasbro, and took a little buzz away from the joe line. But Joe still would have been good stuff. It was, and is still chuck full 'o lots of other great vehicles, charecters, and stories. I didn't have a SE until 2002. I could have cared less about SE, but I still loved GI Joe.

[NSP]

...

[Crimson Gord]

who's snake eyes ?

[Zefram]

If Snake Eyes Didnt exist take the amount of Snake Eyes figures produced and add that number to Duke Figures... Do we REALLY Want to think about that world? DO WE? REALLY?

I lol at body-horror and that sh*t just scared me. >_>;

[Zartanman]

I lol at body-horror and that sh*t just scared me. >_>;

Maybe I should write Horror Stories. LOL

[sparhawk]

"And then the young man turned...and there..on the shelf...was nothing but Duke figures...pegwarming, repainted, and neon green.."

[CrimsonGuard101]

I would be ok with snake eyes not exisitng as there are plenty of other cool characters aside from him.

[Owner of a Lonely B.A.T.]

Trying to come up with a serious answer...mosty because all the funny answers are aready taken...I think Stalker would have become the go to guy for G.I. Joe.

As for Cobra I think Cobra would have formed anyway...I still think CC's brother would have been killed, and I still think it would have been an ignition for the the commander to start his plans.

But I do think we'd have a lot less Ninja action in Joe.

With out the whole SE/CC/SS angle the Arashakge ninja clan may never have been drawn in.

But thinking a bit on this while recruting for the Joe team Stalker might have recommended Storm Shadow in SE's place which would have had him as a Joe, and avoided the virtal shattering of the Arashakage clan.

So maybe Storm Shadow would have been the main focus of GI Joe....actually I change my pick from Stalker to SS. That really makes a lot of sense to me.

I also think that the series would likely run the same way after that...SS would have saved Scarlett and been injured, etc, etc, etc.

The one question I do have is SE ended up in the brainwave scanner a few times, and pretty much resisted...SS has not been as resiliant in those matters. So he may have ended up flip floping alot from Joe to Cobra and back again still.

Which would have resulted in some serious conflicts all around. I think more Joes might have died, and even more characters would have had a deep distrust for SS.

And on another thought...if SS was not part of Cobra around the 20 issues (remember he was there to find out who killed his uncle of free will) who would have rescued CC from the Joes? Bludd and Destro and Baroness weren't gonna do it?

[Monkeywrench]

Trying to come up with a serious answer...mosty because all the funny answers are aready taken...I think Stalker would have become the go to guy for G.I. Joe.

As for Cobra I think Cobra would have formed anyway...I still think CC's brother would have been killed, and I still think it would have been an ignition for the the commander to start his plans.

But I do think we'd have a lot less Ninja action in Joe.

With out the whole SE/CC/SS angle the Arashakge ninja clan may never have been drawn in.

But thinking a bit on this while recruting for the Joe team Stalker might have recommended Storm Shadow in SE's place which would have had him as a Joe, and avoided the virtal shattering of the Arashakage clan.

So maybe Storm Shadow would have been the main focus of GI Joe....actually I change my pick from Stalker to SS. That really makes a lot of sense to me.

I also think that the series would likely run the same way after that...SS would have saved Scarlett and been injured, etc, etc, etc.

The one question I do have is SE ended up in the brainwave scanner a few times, and pretty much resisted...SS has not been as resiliant in those matters. So he may have ended up flip floping alot from Joe to Cobra and back again still.

Which would have resulted in some serious conflicts all around. I think more Joes might have died, and even more characters would have had a deep distrust for SS.

And on another thought...if SS was not part of Cobra around the 20 issues (remember he was there to find out who killed his uncle of free will) who would have rescued CC from the Joes? Bludd and Destro and Baroness weren't gonna do it?

I like your take

[Captain Carstein]

My answer comes from the angle of the Marvel comic series, because that's my experience and what I know. I'm sure someone could make a similar argument or completely different one from the cartoon angle which obviously contributed to the popularity and lovegevity of GI Joe as well.

First off. Larry Hama would have had to write a lot more dialogue :) and we might not ever have gotten something so cool as issue #21 (I remember being blown away the day it came in the mailbox).

SE gave some edge and mystery to the early Joe team. That prompted sales of this strange all black figure, (that surprised Hasbro who had created the fig as a cost savings move) and caused Marvel readers to wonder.

Sometimes nothing is more interesting than the unknown, and an all black, face-masked, mute commando is chock full of it. Readers wanted to know more, and in sort of creating a super hero for the comic, Hama dove into his origin story. The comic and the toyline basking in popularity when no one had given a toy based comic chance of success.

Because we dug into SE's past, we now wanted to know more about the other Joes and Cobras. Where did they come from? What makes them tick? Most of all, what makes them interesting? This created a Joeverse and fantasy that our young (and old) minds and imagination could really dive into. It created characters (good and evil) that we cared about and found interesting.

By the mid '80s the stuff in the toyline was pretty sweet, but that first year (although I love it myself) was very bland. They were just a bunch of green army men fighting blue ones. They might have done OK in sales for a year or two, the normal life span of a new toyline, and then disappeared.

I don't want to make SE seem like the be all end all of GI Joe, but after the first couple of comic issues, Hama realized it was all about the characters and that was going to drive this train. SE offered the most blank page to work with and fueled our wonder. Of course other characters had been developed before the SE origin story, but I see him as an important catalyst to that whole process.

Sure there was other early mysterious characters like Cobra Commander and Destro for example, but for me no one else seemed to truly spark that imagination that is much of the lifeblood of GI Joes' longtime success.

[Monkeywrench]

good stuff Cap. Great post.

[Chief-Rocka300]

In the Marvel series, Snake-Eyes was pretty much the hub of the Joe verse.

What if Snake-Eyes didn't exist?
1) Storm-Shadow wouldn't have met him in Viet-Nam
a. Storm Shadow wouldn't have invited him to "join the family business"
b. Cobra Commander wouldn't have sent Firefly then Zartan to kill Snake-Eyes
c. Zartan wouldn't have accidentally killed the Hard Master.
d. Prof. Onahashi, the sword smith, wouldn't have committed hari kari.
e. Zartan wouldn't have killed The Blind Master.
f. Storm Shadow wouldn't have joined Cobra to find out the identity of his uncle's killer.
g. Without Storm Shadow to rescue him, Billy would have been executed.
h. The Soft Master wouldn't have been in Springfield to be killed by Scrap-Iron.
i. The Red Ninjas may have not separated from the Arashakage clan

2) Stalker wouldn't have met him in Viet Nam
a) Stalker wouldn't have asked him to Join the G.I.Joe team.
b) Scarlett may have died in the helicopter crash that disfigured Snake-Eyes.
c) If Scarlett did survive, she may have gone on to have a perfectly healthy relationship with a nice normal man. lol
d) Several Joes may be dead w/o Snake-Eyes to save them, i.e. Stalker, Gung-Ho, and Breaker in #12.

3) Snake-Eyes parents wouldn't have been on the road to the airport to pick him up.
a) Cobra Commander's brother, Dan, wouldn't have gotten into the car accident that killed him and them. Although, I think he probably would have had an accident with somebody else.
b) The death of CC's bro seemed to be the catalyst that pushed him over the edge. CC would have found an excuse sooner or later.

4) Snake-Eyes wouldn't have been in Viet-Nam and tried to save the Baroness's brother to have her think he was the killer. The Baroness probably would have been bad anyway.

5) We'd never have wondered what that "thing in his boot" was that Breaker referred to in #3.

6) All the Cobras that Snake-Eyes killed may be alive! (DD brought half of them back anyway!)

I know there wouldn't have been much of a story, but I always like to have fun with "What If's"

Mondo notion dude

[Captain Carstein]

good stuff Cap. Great post.

Thanks. I couldn't stop typing. :)

I like what OoaLB came up with. This is actually a pretty interesting thread. As much as I enjoy the funny answers, its interesting to see what other 'Tankers come up with even if we might disagree.

[Buzzetta]

5) We'd never have wondered what that "thing in his boot" was that Breaker referred to in #3.

Wait, what WAS in the boot?

[Monkeywrench]

Thanks. I couldn't stop typing. :)

I like what OoaLB came up with. This is actually a pretty interesting thread. As much as I enjoy the funny answers, its interesting to see what other 'Tankers come up with even if we might disagree.


I agree. As part of my raising from the dead, I plan on doing a good mix of comical and actual good threads that got buried for some reason or the other. The first one about the toon was actually still relevant, the mindbender was kinda comical and this one is a good topic that just faded away back when the Tank was alot more populated.

[laurenluna1977]

I guess the first question here is "why do you think he exists in he first place?"

Remember, admitting you have a problem is always the first step.

[Monkeywrench]

I think the team would have been more military orientated first off. Second, I think Flint, Beachhead and Duke would have had much larger roles in the marvel run. The chances that another ninja would have been created is very high imo. Ninja's really exploded in the late 80's and early 90's, however maybe gi joe wouldn't had lasted long enough in the arah era to get that far.

Lets say it did, and everything still went on but there was no SE. Who would have been on all those comic covers? From marvel-ddp-idw, he's got to be on over 50. Would it have been Duke?

Maybe Sgt Slaughter would have had a much larger role in the marvel series and he would have been the "superhero".

I think this would be a great question for Hama, the next time he does a q & a. I wonder what he would say.

[Captain Carstein]

As far as covers, etc. go, I would guess Stalker. He seemed to be one of Hama's favs.

[Dealer Destro]

If Snake didn't exist I wouldn't have excuses, let alone reasons, to keep kit bashing him. lol.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i119/Lyricron/se1.jpg