When do you think the marvel run started going downhill?

[wheeljack01]

I love the marvel run up till a little after the cobra civil war but after that the book got real boring to me. I pretty much dislike 90% of the issues past 100 because I felt the art work was getting worse,the new character designs were pretty bad, and the story really turning into a ninjafest. I have tried to enjoy the last 60 or so issues of the marvel run over the years but I just can't get into them. I am about to put issues 100-130 on ebay,because I just feel "why keep them if you dont enjoy them?" Does anyone feel this way about the later books or just any part of the orginal run? Where do you think it started losing quality? I do think the first 50 issues are some of the best comics ever.

[Cavbeast]

Basically anything including and past the Ninjafest should be forgotten. The shifting allegiances (destro, Baroness, Zartan, Storm Shadow, Billy) really got tiresome and trying to incorporate the new lines of Ninja Force and Star Brigade made the freighter retcons believeable (Firefly, Mindbender and Zartan).

[wheeljack01]

I also really got tired of the destro being good and the whole everybody in cobra is connected to snakeeyes thing. Ok storm shadow for sure, zartan thats fine, cobra commander?,destro what?, the baroness?!!, and firefly too?! That was way too much for me.

[Monkeywrench]

once it gets into the 80's and 90's it gets bad.

[mswi]

i agree it was shortly after the civial war. ninja force, the transforming castle, eco-warriors, ugh!!!
although i did enjoy the story arc when the SAW Viper killed the joes, can't remember the issue#'s

[Captain STEVEN DePACE]

Probably after Issue #19. Afterwards it started getting to big for everyone to be characterized, plus they killed 2 cool Cobra characters, and Kwinn and Flagg

[swafus]

I think it was good up to about the end of the war in trucial abysmia (issue# 118?) There were some pretty hardcore scenes during that war and a lot of characters died. Shortly after that was when things just started getting stupid!

[Apeiron]

i agree it was shortly after the civial war. ninja force, the transforming castle, eco-warriors, ugh!!!
although i did enjoy the story arc when the SAW Viper killed the joes, can't remember the issue#'s

It was #109 where the S.A.W. Viper killed Doc, Thunder, Crankcase, and Heavy Metal. In the issue Quick Kick, Breaker, and Crazy leg also died by an exploding Cobra Rage.
Beyond that issue I haven't read much above #100 so I can't say much of what I think of it.

[Pimp Daddy Darklon]

After the Civil War, things started to wind down. Issues 100+ were pretty much just promoting the toys.

The art too were poor in the late issues. Never did like Bright's rubber mouths. Wished it was Ron Wagner all the way, the best artist on Marvel's GIJoe run

[nacho]

My favorite issues are the 40's and 50's (give me Zeck covers and Rod Whigham pencils any day), but the cobra civil war was quite good. I agree that it went down hill after that in general, but the war in trucial abysmia was a bright spot prior to the ninja-induced downfall of the title.

Regardless, I had the entire marvel and DDP run (basically the entire Hamaverse) bound into custom hardcovers (I'm still waiting on the final volume of AE to come back from the bindery). Yo Joe!

http://www.pickelpartners.com/image_host/binding/DSC02134_resize.JPG
http://www.pickelpartners.com/image_host/binding/DSC02137_resize.JPG
http://www.pickelpartners.com/image_host/binding/DSC02138_resize.JPG
http://www.pickelpartners.com/image_host/binding/DSC02139_resize.JPG

[mswi]

that is awesome!!! how do you go about something like that, sure beats sticking them in a cupboard, like mine are now

[hwheels2]

For me it was when they introduced zartan and the dreadnoks.around #30?
i'm pretty much an art guy and looking at the cover of those issues made me want to puke.crayons and magic markers? thats what it looks like.
i know good stories were being told and the line got better.but that bad art ruined the comic for me.
it didnt effect my joe collecting though as i continued until around 1990.

[nacho]

librarybinding.com

I've already created the spine and cover dies of the logo, so they are at LBC and I've told them to let anyone that wants to use them.

Also, check out the binding forum at CGS. It's got tons of great examples of other peoples projects and pics of several other binding projects I've done too (X-Men, Batman, Spider-Man, Green Lantern, etc).
http://www.thecomicforums.com/forum2//index.php?showtopic=113911&st=60

[errantentertainment]

OMG, you are the coolest person alive! I've been looking for a way to keep and display my full runs of Marvel G.I. Joe and Marvel Star Wars.

[mswi]

thanks for the info, ballpark, how much that set you back?

[Barefoot Jedi]

I've read almost the entire Marvel run for the first time in the last year, including the entire run of Special Missions, and the only criticism that remains in my mind is the introduction of too many Joes issue by issue that starts around 1988/89. I understand this was necessary because the comic was an advertising tool for the toys, but you'd have comics where new characters would appear and then be relegated to background characters with little to no more involvement in the story and you could never become emotionally invested in them.

The most consistent characters throughout the story are:

Hawk
Snake-Eyes
Scarlett
Stalker
Flint
Lady J
COBRA Commander
Storm Shadow
Destro
Baroness
Zartan
Billy

It's not the writing or the story in the ninja books that is the problem, it's the ludicrous outfits the Ninja Force wore. I think the Ninja Force books are good. I love how they re-invent Firefly.

[fireflyguy]

I am in the process of reading the entire marvel series now. I am at issue #78. It's okay, but I have been thinking that it would be better if they showed fewer charachters overall and showed some of the major ones more consistently. I think the Battle Force 2000 was kinda silly. But I can't really comment on the later issues because I haven't read them yet.

Can anyone tell me what order everything should go in? Like, what series comes after the Marvel series? I'm wanting to read everything in order as much as possible.

Nacho, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen!

[shlappyguy]

those bound comics are awesome.

[nacho]

thanks for the info, ballpark, how much that set you back?

The binding is very reasonable. The cost of the basic binding was $15 (per volume), and $5 each for the cover and spine logo stamps. Thus mine were $25 per volume + shipping via UPS both ways.

Then, I don't have a clue how much I spent collecting a second full run of all the series. But just the binding, I'll have $500-$600 in the project. I've also got some other runs at the bindery as well - European Missions, Action Force Weekly, and some other Special Missions and Frontline issues that didn't get into the other volumes.

Check out the CGS binding forum in the link I gave above; it's an addictive "sub-hobby"...

[mswi]

yeah, i agree i thought battleforce was silly as well and too many characters to fast. and Magatron coming in the later issues bugged me. i didn't mind the crossover series, but i can't really put my finger on why it bugged me so much.

[mswi]

great another hobby, thanks for the link, reasonably priced too. when i finally get all the original run and special missions complete i'll be all over that

[glassmoon]

[QUOTE=nacho;251444]My favorite issues are the 40's and 50's (give me Zeck covers and Rod Whigham pencils any day), but the cobra civil war was quite good. I agree that it went down hill after that in general, but the war in trucial abysmia was a bright spot prior to the ninja-induced downfall of the title.

Regardless, I had the entire marvel and DDP run (basically the entire Hamaverse) bound into custom hardcovers (I'm still waiting on the final volume of AE to come back from the bindery). Yo Joe!

Did u take the original comics and bid them?how much does it cost u to do that?

[nacho]

Did u take the original comics and bid them?how much does it cost u to do that?

About $500-$600 to bind the Marvel and DDP runs. See the discussion on the previous page for more details.

[jjk1120]

Around the time that Storm Shadow joined the Joes and every issue was Ninjas was very tiresome. And BF 2000 & Eco-Warriors were so dumb words fail me.

I just went to a comic show not too long ago and got many of the later issues I never read. Some were good, some just so bad it was painful.

I still laugh when I read the words "Ninja Force".

Good God...

[Crimson Rage]

Personally I didn't like much after the Cobra civil war. Too many Dreadnoks came to the fore.
Things picked up a bit when Cobra Commander came back and I loved the run with Andy Wildman's art, but then we got Ninja's, then Transformers and it was *pffffffffttt*!

[spacemonkeymafia]

After the Civil War, things started to wind down. Issues 100+ were pretty much just promoting the toys.

The art too were poor in the late issues. Never did like Bagley's rubber mouths. Wished it was Ron Wagner all the way, the best artist on Marvel's GIJoe run

Did you mean Mark Bright..........because his art was sweet and some of the best besides Mike Zeck.........

[EricCamper]

after I bought my 50th venom toy. lol

[wheeljack01]

Another thing I hate about the last 60 or so issues is the lack of Iron grenadiers! I mean they were this awesome army that could rival cobra and then like nothing they were never really seen again. They were one of the only later sub sects that I ever cared for.

[darthZartan]

The 30-50 issues are my favs. Hail Zeck! After around 60 I stopped reading every month, it just seemed to lose something for me. The early issues are great fun.

[doomed huh]

doesnt it destroy the comics having them bound like that

[nacho]

doesnt it destroy the comics having them bound like that

Destroy the comics in what way? Yeah, they trim the spines and edges ever so slightly to make them even, and you can't get them back as single issues once they are bound, but they are far from destroyed. They are simply in a new, more enjoyable form.

Clearly, binding is not something you'd want to do if you collect comics that you plan to sell one day. However, if their purpose is to be read, displayed, and to generally make you happy, then binding is about the best thing you can do to your comics.

I see where you're coming from, and I had mixed feelings at first. Most binding virgins can't bear for the thought of permanently altering their comics. I combat this problem by collecting a second set of everything I have bound.

The best part is, you don't need NM comics for binding. The majority of flaws in VG/F comics are blunt corners and spine stresses. These all go away when they trim about 1/16th of an inch to make the edges of the book even. Thus, as long as the comics aren't ripped, heavily yellowed, or water damaged, VG/F is the same as NM as far as binding goes. Thus I collect two sets and I keep the best copy of each issue for my bagged and boarded set, and I send the lesser books to be bound. My singles collection sometimes gets an upgrade and the bound set looks perfect. It's a win-win.

[82joe]

I stopped buying them (Marvel) somewhere around issue 36 or 37. I did pick up some later issues when TRU would sell the re-prints in a bag of 3 or 4, but I could never really get into them. I'd love for some type of graphic novel of re-prints to come out on high quality paper.......didn't this already happen though?

[doomed huh]

i think as regular comics they are good enough. who wants everything to be in a special book

plus it's cool having lots of comic boxes

[nacho]

I stopped buying them (Marvel) somewhere around issue 36 or 37. I did pick up some later issues when TRU would sell the re-prints in a bag of 3 or 4, but I could never really get into them. I'd love for some type of graphic novel of re-prints to come out on high quality paper.......didn't this already happen though?

Marvel put out the first 50 issues in a set of 5 trades a few years ago, but they stopped at 50 (I've heard one story that they stopped due to poor sales and another story that they stopped because Hasbro was trying to reaquire the rights to them, not sure which, if either, is true).

However, IDW is going to start publishing trades reprinting the Marvel run starting in January. The first two volumes are already listed on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1600103456
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1600103790

[Dantalion]

I just recently read the entire run and it slowed down quickly for me after the civil war. Too many ninjas stories and all my favorite badguys turning to good. It's more enjoyable when you have a vested interests on both sides. And Zartan with his punk look, just terrible...

[doomed huh]

i guess around the time they took the regular logo off and changed it too GI Joe featuring Snake-Eyes it wasn't as good

[nacho]

i think as regular comics they are good enough. who wants everything to be in a special book

plus it's cool having lots of comic boxes

It's neat to have them bound because:

1) They look awesome
2) you can see them on your shelf everytime you walk by, not shoved in a longbox in the closet.
3) You don't have to mess with boxes and bags everytime you want to read a few issues or worry about bending the spines and such.
4) I had mine bound in reading order so that the relevant issues of Special Missions, yearbooks, Frontline, M&A, Declassified, etc are in what I deem to be the correct place. No more skipping from series to series or wondering what issue to read next or running to a different box.
5) You make it one-of-a-kind, exactly the way you want, not how other people think it should be or how some publisher decideds it should be.

Again, it's personal taste. I still have a full set bagged and boarded in a long box too. I wouldn't do this for all my comics, just my favorites that I plan to read more often. But I find this to be a very neat way to enjoy my favorite comics. However, I realize that binding isn't for everyone. For the rest of us, it's freakin' cool.

[delta]

I liked the later ones in the Marvel run. They had a way of making the really dumb characters coming out at the time a little more acceptable.

[orl1979]

I think right around issue 120 I stopped reading. I agree the art was subpar, but if I remember correctly there was a price hike at Marvel. As a seventh-grader, my financial plan couldn't take the 25 cent hit. Later on, when I saw the issues in stores, I was glad I stopped reading since all they appeared to write about were ninjas.

[delta]

Regardless, I had the entire marvel and DDP run (basically the entire Hamaverse) bound into custom hardcovers (I'm still waiting on the final volume of AE to come back from the bindery). Yo Joe!


http://www.pickelpartners.com/image_host/binding/DSC02139_resize.JPGTheese are great by the way.

[nacho]

Here's how I grade the entire series in 10 issue chunks:

10= best thing I ever read
1= only Hama's momma would like them

1-10: 7
11-20: 8
21-30: 9
31-40: 8
41-50: 10
51-60: 10
61-70: 9
71-80: 10
81-90: 7
91-100: 7
101-110: 8
111-120: 7
121-130: 6
131-140: 5
141-150: 4
151-155: 6 *(only because 155 was 10, while the others about a 2).

[Lo-Wan Bing]

Your books look awesome. If I had the drive I would do it to my Legion of Super Heroes collection. They really look great... but as far as Joe goes... I can make it about half way thru vol 4 of Marvel's collection (35ish) before I lose interest. Flint's my guy and all but his introduction along w/Tomax/Xamot and the whole Candy the baloon bear bit stop me cold every time...

[nacho]

Thanks!

Yeah, candy the bear was a little goofy, but the creation of cobra island, Ripcord vs Zartan, and invasion of Springfield stories that followed were incredible.

[Pimp Daddy Darklon]

Oh yeah, it was Bright. Confused him with Bagley.

[wheeljack01]

I think we are getting alittle off the subject matter of why the book started going downhill.....:)

[swafus]

What really dragged the book down was Hasbro's insistence on Larry Hamma using a new handful of characters in every issue. The man is an absolute magician for being able to keep the storyline(s) cohesive with that constantly being thrown at him!

[nacho]

The book started going down-hill because Hasbro continued to mandate the inclusion of certain characters, vehicles, and concepts well into the decline of the toyline, essentially dragging the comic down with it (i.e. they cross-branded it to death). Also, the fans that had grown up on Joe from the beginning were suddenly discovering cars, girls, and other things and couldn't be bothered with kid stuff like Joe toys and comics. I think many, if not most, comic fans take a "break" somewhere in the highschool/college era because of shifting interests, lack of time, lack of funds, etc. Not that all Joe fans quit at once, but I'd say a big chunk of the core fanbase for the toys and comics simply grew out of it for a time (myself included).

That growing up phase seemed to coincide with the more outlandish and less popular charaters/concepts (or one could argue that the outlandish concepts were a desperate attempt by Hasbro to generate interest when the "growing up" of the fanbase began), spelling the temporary death of both the toys and comics.

[dogtears]

im not sure if this has been touched on already, but why doesnt marvel pick up the rights to gi joe again since its going to be more sought after when the movie and the new toy line up and the cartoon coming up? is it to do with hasbro?? and if so why are smaller companies like DD and now IDW able to coincide with hasbro on it?

[nacho]

Hasbro owns the entire GI Joe property in all its forms and licenses the publishing rights to companies that specialize in comics. DDP had the license and paid hasbro a monthly license fee. Then, when the deal expired, Hasbro chose to license the publishing rights to IDW (instead of renewing with DDP). They had already worked with IDW on Transformer comics. So the two publisher's Joe licenses do not overlap, and they do not "coincide" with hasbro. They pay huge fees to Hasbro for the privilege of publishing Joe comics.

[wheeljack01]

I remember looking through the issue with scarlett vs the b.a.t. and roadblock on a plane and thinking this is some terrible artwork. I actually thought the final issue was pretty tight minus some of the bad costumes(scarlet!!!) the joes had.

[Gunzlingr]

I don't know what issue, but I lost interest when it became all Ninja all the time.

[darthdrew13]

I never got to read much past 80something. I love the bound idea for comics as it still allows great reading material while on the throne. I think I am one of the few who actually likes digital comics as well. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE having something in my hand to hold, but digital versions allow a permanent archive without taking up much more than 1 or 2 DVDs. Does IDW have plans for digital reprints? Or will Hasbro release them with figures? (on like mini-CDs with 4 issues per CD would be cool). I have only 10 or so issues that I have scanned from my collection but really want to read what I missed.

[Moses]

Once the comic series started hitting it's stride with story arcs rather than standalone missions/issues it was awesome. The whole Dr Venom/Kwinn/Scarface thread was my favorite. Then came more "eccentric" characters that would better fit the superhero genre - Zartan, Tomax/Xamot, Mindbender and of course Serpentor which took it down a notch. Still a great comic, but it was better when it seemed a little more "real world". Finally, just like most others on here, I think it went down the tubes with all the ninja crap.

So I think it went uphill a little in the beginning, plateaued around issue 21 went a little downhill and bumped around at that level for a while and took a nosedive with the emergence of ninja force.

[Captain STEVEN DePACE]

That growing up phase seemed to coincide with the more outlandish and less popular charaters/concepts (or one could argue that the outlandish concepts were a desperate attempt by Hasbro to generate interest when the "growing up" of the fanbase began), spelling the temporary death of both the toys and comics.

Most guys who were into joe in 82 were out of it by 87, so they think "Ah everyone after 87 sucks" however to someone who started collecting in 88 Repeater might be the coolest Heavy Machine Gunner. It all depends on what you grew up with.

Those outlandish concepts were Hasbro cashing in on what was popular with kids at the time, ya know like TMNT (Ninja Force) or Captain Planet (Eco Warriors) they weren't trying to get some one who was in his late teens to buy toys. It's not like today when the only people who buy G.I. Joe toys are adults, kids still played with toys back then

[nacho]

Most guys who were into joe in 82 were out of it by 87, so they think "Ah everyone after 87 sucks" however to someone who started collecting in 88 Repeater might be the coolest Heavy Machine Gunner. It all depends on what you grew up with.

Those outlandish concepts were Hasbro cashing in on what was popular with kids at the time, ya know like TMNT (Ninja Force) or Captain Planet (Eco Warriors) they weren't trying to get some one who was in his late teens to buy toys. It's not like today when the only people who buy G.I. Joe toys are adults, kids still played with toys back then

Well, I am one of those that think that most everything after '87 sucks, with a few exceptions. I know there are younger fans that like that later stuff, and that's cool too. I'm not saying that nobody liked it, but I do think that it contributed to the decline of the toys and comics.

However, I do think that Hasbro was trying to get more and more outlandish and extreme to sell toys, and the problem is that while it may have been a popular trend in toys in general (like you point out), it is not Joe. Joe is grounded in the fact that they are a modern military force, maybe with new weapons and really cutting edge technology. On the other hand, cobra has this strange duality of being an underfunded grass-roots terrorist organization that at the same time comes up with outlandishly hi-tech weapons now and then.

Either way, while it's all not gritty military reality, it has some basis in reality with just a touch of sci-fi. When they got waaaaaaay out into the sci-fi side of things, they became a neon-colored eco-ninja parody of themselves that really drove away much of their fanbase. Or to put it better, they made it VERY easy for much of their fanbase to "let go" as they grew up, and the new stuff, while it had some fans, was not interesting enough to replace the fans that were leaving in droves.

[spacemonkey]

Great frickin thread guys.
And Nacho, Your my hero. I'm going to do this. I have 2 complete runs of NAM, so i'll have one binded and get rid of the other. As far as Joe's concerned, I'm about 3/4 through completing a full run. Once i'm finished i'll have em bound. I do want to have a second set to keep in a box though. Anyone know where I can buy these without going to Ebay?
Thanks again Nacho.

[nacho]

Try these:

mycomicshop.com
atomicavenue.com
and if you have to go to ebay, buy the books in lots rather than singles. It's much cheaper that way.

[errantentertainment]

ComicCollectorLive.com is where I do my comic shopping.
Better prices than anywhere else I've seen but yeah if you do eBay buy in lots. It will save your wallet.

[nightforceoutback11]

The 30-50 issues are my favs. Hail Zeck! After around 60 I stopped reading every month, it just seemed to lose something for me. The early issues are great fun.


I'm with you, I loved the Intro of Serpentor and the exodus of spring field at the same time. I was ten years old when that all when down. The whole serpentor idea was the shiznit. I'd say somewhere around the late 60 ies some of the polish came off the apple.

[Golobulous]

have to say i loved the marvel run all the way to the last issue. and the art post issue #100 was some of the best, andrew wildman, i think was his name is my all time favorite joe artist

[spacemonkey]

Thanks guys for the leads. Ebay has really done a number on the ol wallet over the years.

[pyro894]

Nacho -

Are the cover's bound too?

[nacho]

The entire comics, covers, art, ads, etc are all bound. Some people go to great lengths to remove back covers and ads, but most of the ads have art/story on one side, so you don't gain much. I just leave them intact when I send them off to be bound.

[CynthiaCM]

I think it started to go downhill in '86 or so. I feel that Serpentor was the telltale sign that the series was losing its steam (even though I honestly liked his first several issues). Then, the series picked back up (at least to me) when Cobra Commander came back in issue #99. The Trucial Abysmia storyline was just top-flight work from beginning to end as well. Then, it plummeted to crap-dom with the whole Ninja Force nonsense.

[Imperial_Serpentor]

Again this might just be cause I'm younger then most people in this thread... but for me, I loved GI Joe all the way to the end, I remember reading the Megatron issues as a kid and thinking they were awesome cause I loved transformers (and the conclusion in Transformers Generation 2 issue 2 was pretty awesome anyway, even today (and I literally mean today, I just re-read it)).


4) I had mine bound in reading order so that the relevant issues of Special Missions, yearbooks, Frontline, M&A, Declassified, etc are in what I deem to be the correct place. No more skipping from series to series or wondering what issue to read next or running to a different box.



This would be the main appeal for me, I noticed that a lot of graphic novels by DC are doing this now (Supergirl Condor while mostly a collection of Supergirl 6-12 has various other snippets to try and help explain the crisis and everything, including as much as one page from random other comic, that ties in... so that was kinda cool).

I would ask if you included the aformentioned Transformers G2 Vol 2, since without that issue the Megatron ark (pun intended) just drops off. (IIRC the next issue actually comes before the Scarlett, defection ark... furthering my confusion as a kid).

[prowl]

have to say i loved the marvel run all the way to the last issue. and the art post issue #100 was some of the best, andrew wildman, i think was his name is my all time favorite joe artist

I also thought Wildman's art was pretty cool for its time, but I really became annoyed when EVERY CHARACTER was drawn with squinty eyes and wide-open, shouting mouths, even when the scene didn't call for that kind of X-TREME.

Still, hands down, the worst drawn issue I ever read was the one Todd McFarlane did; Chuckles lookeds like Arnold. 'Nuff said!

But I have to agree with liking the entire series. In retrospect, I've come to hate the Transformers G2 crossover, but I thought it was the coolest thing that had ever happened to the Joes back in the day when I first read it. I actually enjoyed the specialized teams like the DEF and the Eco-Warriors, even though the later really would have more difficulty finding stories than the DEF, which really wrote itself (at least they had realistic threats, but the Eco-Wariors had such an abstract purpose that they had to crete a villian to almost literally personify polution).

And I loved the Ninja-force, even though it was little more than a 'super-friends' team-up to help tell Snake-Eyes' story when Firefly returned.

BTW, did anyone ever read the letters sections? Didn't you find it totally messed-up when people would write in just to ask for certain characters to be killed off? Man, that never felt right. I was so upset when Doc and Breaker died. Heck, I even liked Crazylegs, despite having one of the worst names ever.

[errantentertainment]

I loved the Ninja Force so much that I bought the original art page of their first appearance from Randy Emberlain about 10 years ago.

[Greaser]

For me the civil war war the beginning of the end, and in the early 100s it just spiraled in. I was excited with the saw viper killings, I assumed that the constantly expanding character list could be trimmed down and wrap up some of that old infighting in Cobra that seemed to make them such an impotent villain group. But instead it was just older nonessential characters in general that got wacked, (read figures that were no longer being produced) and the Hasbro development of ever more ninja-turtles-competing lines of crap continued. I don't blame Hama for this, really when the slightly tweaked fantasy versions of real life military vehicles and troopers went full on fantasy it just couldn't help but suck. The Horror.

[nacho]

I would ask if you included the aformentioned Transformers G2 Vol 2, since without that issue the Megatron ark (pun intended) just drops off. (IIRC the next issue actually comes before the Scarlett, defection ark... furthering my confusion as a kid).

I debated about that. While it does leave that particular thread hanging a bit, I had no desire to saddle my Joe collection with issues of TF Gen 2. I didn't find it to be all that great. I considered leaving out the Joe issues that have the TF in them, but I couldn't stand the thought of having the whole series bound except for 4 issues. Thus I just bound Joe straight through and plan not to think about the TFs as I reread the volumes.

These are tough choices, but inherently, that's what makes binding so much fun. YOU decide what YOU want in your HC, not some summer intern at marvel :)

[Imperial_Serpentor]

I debated about that. While it does leave that particular thread hanging a bit, I had no desire to saddle my Joe collection with issues of TF Gen 2. I didn't find it to be all that great. I considered leaving out the Joe issues that have the TF in them, but I couldn't stand the thought of having the whole series bound except for 4 issues. Thus I just bound Joe straight through and plan not to think about the TFs as I reread the volumes.

These are tough choices, but inherently, that's what makes binding so much fun. YOU decide what YOU want in your HC, not some summer intern at marvel :)

Ah yeah, I wouldn't have included the other issues with Joes (when the Earth is virtually destroyed), but I would have included issue 2 (where Fort Max sacrifices himself to destroy the Ark and the fire truck autobot destroys Cobra's cybertronian technology, and then self destructs) because I felt that was much more of a GI Joe issue then a Transformers issue anyway... and again I thought it was pure awesome.

But again, I guess you're right, and that what makes it fun... because for me that issue has to be in there and I doubt it'll show up in the IDW graphic novels (though since they have the Transformers rights they totally could).

[artiepants]

ok, os i've been reading Joe from the beginning here recently, and while it went up and down in the 75-100 period, the dramatic shift that occurs immediately after the war (i believe it was issue 116 ~ the first part of 'Destro: Search and Destroy') is kinda shocking.

I can't define what it is, but it just suddenly seems really sophomoric especially compared to what immediately went before it (the Trucial Abysma war arc is one of my favorites.

coincidentally or not, this is also the point several characters get into some of there worst getups ever. funny seeing Flint V1 standing around with Astronaut Hawk (http://www.yojoe.com/action/91/generalhawk.shtml) and Snow Skiing Snake Eyes (http://www.yojoe.com/action/91/snakeeyes4.shtml). Cobra Commander also started acting way to Cartoon super-villain melodramatic after his chilling re-introduction around #100. (and started sporting one of his worst outfits ever as well (http://www.yojoe.com/action/91/cobracommander4.shtml))

[Saboteur]

I love the marvel run up till a little after the cobra civil war but after that the book got real boring to me. I pretty much dislike 90% of the issues past 100 because I felt the art work was getting worse,the new character designs were pretty bad, and the story really turning into a ninjafest. I have tried to enjoy the last 60 or so issues of the marvel run over the years but I just can't get into them. I am about to put issues 100-130 on ebay,because I just feel "why keep them if you dont enjoy them?" Does anyone feel this way about the later books or just any part of the orginal run? Where do you think it started losing quality? I do think the first 50 issues are some of the best comics ever.

I agree with you.
Around the Cobra civil war was when it all started going down hill for me too.
Sab

[CynthiaCM]

I agree with you.
Around the Cobra civil war was when it all started going down hill for me too.
Sab

I think the series had a few upswings after that, myself. In fact, the Trucial Abysmia storyline is probably my favorite of the entire series (though the stuff with Kwinn/Snake-Eyes/Dr. Venom comes in a close second.

[Saboteur]

I think the series had a few upswings after that, myself. In fact, the Trucial Abysmia storyline is probably my favorite of the entire series (though the stuff with Kwinn/Snake-Eyes/Dr. Venom comes in a close second.

Didn't that happen BEFORE the cobra civil war?
Sab

[CynthiaCM]

Didn't that happen BEFORE the cobra civil war?
Sab

The civil war began in '88 (maybe '87), whereas the Trucial Abysmia stuff started in late '90 or early '91.

[blzjoe]

About $500-$600 to bind the Marvel and DDP runs. See the discussion on the previous page for more details.

nice now you need to make some killer dust covers. id love to do that with a set. massin a star wars novel collection right now

[roninviper]

Have been a lifelong fan of Joe. Loved the comic and cartoon, have re-read the entire run more times than I can remember.

For me, the Marvel run started going downhill when Hama introduced the Arashikage ninja link between SS and SE.

If the link had been confined to them and possibly Zartan, then that's cool. But then it almost felt as if everyone became intertwined via the 6 degrees of ninja separation theme.

The Joe brand has always been military-centric first and foremost. It's GI Joe not GI Ninja. Granted the 80s saw a heavy influx of ninja mania but that got ridiculous.

On a sidenote, I think Hama did some of his best work in the Storm Shadow series. It was focused, ninja-centric and made sense. I think this series would have been better appreciated by fans if it wasn't for ninja overload during the Marvel run.

[artiepants]

If the link had been confined to them and possibly Zartan, then that's cool. But then it almost felt as if everyone became intertwined via the 6 degrees of ninja separation theme.

yeah i liked the vicious circle (a recurring theme in Hama's works) of Snake-eyes who wanted to kill Storm-shadow for killing the Hard Master who was actually killed by Zartan who was sent by Cobra Commander to kill Snake-eyes, (and Jinx being tied in to that made logical sense) but when suddenly Firefly was tied in (wtf?) it just got to goofy.

[nacho]

nice now you need to make some killer dust covers. id love to do that with a set. massin a star wars novel collection right now

Actually, I have made dustjackets for all my other bound volumes (Uncanny X-Men, Batman, Spider-Man, Punisher, Green Lantern, Wolverine, Mutant X, OHOTMU, etc), but I think the Joe spine stamps look so good that I don't know if I want to cover them up. I have the covers designed already, but I don't think I'll have them printed.

[Drill]

I have finished rereading all the issues and I believe it is around the Ninja Force area. I think Scarlett looking like someone out of X-Men was really it.

[DTR281]

For me every issue following the attack on the pit story in issues130-134, where horrible. I did like Andrew Wildman's art in issues 120-134, all other artist that followed where bad. yes through out the entire run there were parts that were up and down but the complete dimise of the series and toy line was happening around this time '91-'92.

[CynthiaCM]

I have finished rereading all the issues and I believe it is around the Ninja Force area. I think Scarlett looking like someone out of X-Men was really it.

Yeah, that green outfit was just an eyesore. What were they thinking? Blugh! And let's not forget the orange (or was it red?) mohawked version of Zartan.

[Sean_C]

First blow was the death of the original Cobra Commander. They were adamanted he was dead, ticking off a lot fans. Still, the shake up of that made some good stories.

Then the next blow was the Snake Eyes trilogy. Okay, so now Baroness and Destro are tied to Snake-Eyes' past?

Then the original Cobra Commander came back (a mistake IMHO), killed off a lot of supporting Cobra characters, The cobra infighting was reduced to Cobra Commander and Destro, who became more and more a good guy, along with Baroness and Zartan. Basically Cobra was gutted.

The last decent story arc was Cobra Commander going after Destro. And even that ended with the intro of Ninja Force.

[Troynos]

Basically anything including and past the Ninjafest should be forgotten. The shifting allegiances (destro, Baroness, Zartan, Storm Shadow, Billy) really got tiresome and trying to incorporate the new lines of Ninja Force and Star Brigade made the freighter retcons believeable (Firefly, Mindbender and Zartan).

Exactly. The Ninja Force, Star Brigade, DEF stuff is when the comics lost it.

[artiepants]

Then the next blow was the Snake Eyes trilogy. Okay, so now Baroness and Destro are tied to Snake-Eyes' past?

i didn't actually ind the baroness part so much, in that the way it all hooked together through the Plastic Surgeon that fixed her back in the 20s, it had a reasonably organic logic to it, but then when they hooked Destro in at the end it totally killed my suspension of disbelief...