Marvel continuation or IDW

[kidnicky]

When I was at my lcs the other day,I noticed the Joe stuff looked cool,and I thought about following one of the titles,but which? I read Marvel Joe a little as a kid,and I have the trade of 1-6 or whatever,but I wasn't the world's biggest fan,so Hama nolstalgia isn't really a factor. That said,which of the two current ongoings is best for a “new” reader,or is there another,better ongoing I don't know about. I only really want to pick up one MAYBE two more books a month,for financial reasons.

[maczero]

When I was at my lcs the other day,I noticed the Joe stuff looked cool,and I thought about following one of the titles,but which? I read Marvel Joe a little as a kid,and I have the trade of 1-6 or whatever,but I wasn't the world's biggest fan,so Hama nolstalgia isn't really a factor. That said,which of the two current ongoings is best for a “new” reader,or is there another,better ongoing I don't know about. I only really want to pick up one MAYBE two more books a month,for financial reasons.Well, if you're not a fan of Hama then you should probably stay away from the ARAH book. It definitely reads like the Joe stories from the latter half of the Marvel series (which is about the time I started disliking the series).

OTOH, the new IDW series are a little more serious in tone (particularly Cobra). They're also slower reads and at times a little light on action. The soft reboot starting next month promises to amp things up. Keep in mind, there are three ongoing books in this continuity so you might want to buy all three for the first month and see which one you like the best.

[Troynos]

Stay away from the ARAH unless you have read all the trades, and enjoyed the later issues. Like Maczero, I disliked the latter half of the run and the IDW continuation is more in that tone.

It's also got 155 issues of history that it's building off of.

The IDW series is easier to get into.

[oliverbox]

IDW Cobra is one of the best series I've ever read (however, that storyline about Scoop was a little much for me).

I don't like the mainline IDW series, or the Origins series.
And Hama has gone the way of George Lucas: Thank you for your service back then, but you should have stayed retired as a pleasant memory.

[Crimson Rage]

I'm only reading the ARAH continuation by Hama and enjoying it immensely - The new continuity IDW series has committed the cardinal sin (for me) of splitting off into multiple books and pricing itself out of the market. Maybe you don't have to read all the titles to keep up with the story, but ultimately that's why they do it; to make you buy more comics.

I felt the same with IDW's Transformers series - When a company have to release a "timeline" that instructs you in what order their comics have to be read, I know they've lost the plot. One single title, telling a story from A to B to C, is all I need - Not a meandering, over-plotted crucible of half baked ideas spread over multiple titles.

It's strange how things change: Devil's Due Joe comics (who's take on the franchise I much preferred to IDW's) were constantly criticised for not being like the Marvel run and not mining the rich history of the Marvel comics, but now Hama is doing just that he's getting flak.

[Stormgard]

I'd recommend the TPBs of the ARAH Special Missions series. There are three out now, with the fourth and last coming out this summer. This represents Hama's most consistently strong work. If this whets your appetite you can lways go back and continue the original ARAH series. I'd say the original ARAH really begins hitting its stride around issues 60, and starts going downhill after issues 120 or so. So even though you've given it a chance by reading issues 1-59 or whatever, you really haven't seen it at its best. The Cobra Island Civil War is pretty awesome, and is the best possible blend of realistic military stuff with the fantastical Cobra weirdness.

The Cobra and Cobra II series are absolutely the strongest of the new stuff. I'd guess these willl also be the most important background reading for the upcoming reboot, as opposed to the origins and the IDW G.I.Joe title.

[maczero]

The new continuity IDW series has committed the cardinal sin (for me) of splitting off into multiple books and pricing itself out of the market. Maybe you don't have to read all the titles to keep up with the story, but ultimately that's why they do it; to make you buy more comics.Actually that's not the case here. If anything fans have complained about the lack of cohesiveness between the three books.

[Malocchio]

Hama's ARAH series is the best written series as far as substance, action and simplicity (in terms of buying and following along). You only need to buy one book a month to follow the whole story, but of course if you have no idea what happened in the first 155 issues, you will be lost.

[Troynos]

There's substance in Hama's new ARAH?

[Lt. Faceless]

I'm only reading the ARAH continuation by Hama and enjoying it immensely - The new continuity IDW series has committed the cardinal sin (for me) of splitting off into multiple books and pricing itself out of the market. Maybe you don't have to read all the titles to keep up with the story, but ultimately that's why they do it; to make you buy more comics.

I felt the same with IDW's Transformers series - When a company have to release a "timeline" that instructs you in what order their comics have to be read, I know they've lost the plot. One single title, telling a story from A to B to C, is all I need - Not a meandering, over-plotted crucible of half baked ideas spread over multiple titles.

It's strange how things change: Devil's Due Joe comics (who's take on the franchise I much preferred to IDW's) were constantly criticised for not being like the Marvel run and not mining the rich history of the Marvel comics, but now Hama is doing just that he's getting flak.

I agree DDP doesn't get enough props for what they did.I though Cabra la was what killed Joe for most fans...IDW does it and its cool?

To answer the OP,IDW would be easier to jump into.I find the Marvel run more fun,but like others have said,it does have a 155 issue history to it and might be a little harder to come by.

[MightyMegs]

There's substance in Hama's new ARAH?

More than all of Dixon's Crapfest put together...

[Jay West]

I just can't see the infatuation some fans have with Hama's current work. It is so dated. The dialogue is horrible. The concepts are comical - dark Snake Eyes? It is actually closer to something Robot Chicken might do for humor.

[Crimson Rage]

There's substance in Hama's new ARAH?

Yes - Substance that was created from #1 to #155 and is being built upon now - I mean, isn't that why we liked it in the first place? The whole point is that all that backstory is still there!

I just can't see the infatuation some fans have with Hama's current work. It is so dated. The dialogue is horrible. The concepts are comical - dark Snake Eyes? It is actually closer to something Robot Chicken might do for humor.

Some of the more vocal fans declared that Hama's work was the ONLY valid material to come from the DDP run. Now he seems to be public enemy number one to quite a few others - Did his support of ROC have that much of a profound effect, or was it his dismissal of the more anal of fans for their obsession with coninuity? Whatever, he seems to have fallen from grace quite spectacularly in some quarters.

[maczero]

Yes - Substance that was created from #1 to #155 and is being built upon now - I mean, isn't that why we liked it in the first place? The whole point is that all that backstory is still there!



Some of the more vocal fans declared that Hama's work was the ONLY valid material to come from the DDP run. Now he seems to be public enemy number one to quite a few others - Did his support of ROC have that much of a profound effect, or was it his dismissal of the more anal of fans for their obsession with coninuity? Whatever, he seems to have fallen from grace quite spectacularly in some quarters.Could also be that not everyone cares for his take on the franchise. Don't get me wrong, I still consider the man the godfather of G.I. Joe but some fans are turned off by some of his concepts. For instance, Snake-Eyes being the center of the Joe universe. Nearly every member of Cobra high command, has run into SE prior to joining Cobra. Then there's his sense of humor. I like to laugh as much as the next guy, but Larry's humor tends to be a bit too slapstick for my taste.

[Troynos]

He's fallen from grace because the new ARAH is phoned in. He's capable of far better stuff.

Not all of the original 155 issues was gold. The last quarter was pretty bad and more often then not the ones that are complaining about the current ARAH (myself included) were not fans of the later run of the Marvel ARAH.

And what does his stuff at DDP have to do with it? His DDP stuff was more in line/tone with the first half of Marvel's Joe. Which was the run that got the book so popular in the first place.

It was the later parts of the run that got the book canceled.



There is nothing of substance in his new ARAH.

[Jay West]

He's fallen from grace because the new ARAH is phoned in. He's capable of far better stuff.

Not all of the original 155 issues was gold. The last quarter was pretty bad and more often then not the ones that are complaining about the current ARAH (myself included) were not fans of the later run of the Marvel ARAH.

And what does his stuff at DDP have to do with it? His DDP stuff was more in line/tone with the first half of Marvel's Joe. Which was the run that got the book so popular in the first place.

It was the later parts of the run that got the book canceled.



There is nothing of substance in his new ARAH.

I wonder if he will even try anything new in the new book. It feels like it is stuck in some sort of distorted '80's time warp. He should be pushing the envelope and trying new things. He has a wonderful playground all to himself.

[Troynos]

So far there hasn't been much new:

1- Brainwave Scanner
2- SS/SE brainwashed fight and one un-brainwashs the other
3- The PITT gets attacked and they do the old "move the quonset hut trick" again

The only "new" stuff has been:

1- Dr. Venom "living" on in Billy
2- Billy/Baroness relationship (which is a tad on the creepy side since she is old enough to be his mother...)


It started off with a good storyline, the one with Cobra "taking over" the US and the Joes on the run. But that didn't last long before we got "Dark Snake-Eyes" which was alot of build up for what?

A two page fight and SS unleashing the "Ariashakage Mindset", which is becoming a big ol' deus ex machina.

[Crimson Rage]

If Hama's new comics have "no substance" then I'm no longer really sure what "substance" within comics is.

And my DDP references were an attempt to show how the "grass is always greener" philosophy pretty much pervades fans' attitudes. Everyone wanted Hama to write the DDP title full time when he wasn't doing it - Now he's back on the job, it ain't "good enough".
Personally I think he's slipped back in very comfortably and the transition is barely noticable - To me it reads like the Marvel series (which I consider a good thing) while the main IDW titles feel too much like DDP's "Reloaded" to be enjoyable.

But then that's why there are two continuities I suppose, so a person can choose which to follow - I don't like the IDW reboot (not because it's a reboot I hasten to add) so I don't bother with it. The only way I can sum it up is by saying that when I read Hama's stuff it feels like I'm reading a GI JOE book, but when I read (past tense) the other IDW series I feel I was just reading a book called 'GI JOE'.

[Troynos]

There's no depth to Hama's ARAH. No growth. He's slipped into familiar routines.

[Stormgard]

Well on the flip side, isn't familiarity to some extent what we go to G.I.Joe for? To me, I'd rather have a little "comfort food" than something entirely and radically different.

There is this tricky balance between keeping things true to the original feel of the franchise and still trying new things. How do you make something recognisably G.I.Joe when writing for an adult audience that wants a little part of its childhood back, without slipping back into predictable patterns? I'm not saying it's a lose-lose situation, but perhaps we have expectations that no one is going to ever be able to fulfill - kind of like all the SW fans who had looked forward to episode I-III with the assumption that those movies would mean the same to them as adults, as the original three had to them as kids. If you saw the Stones or Springsteen live in the '70s and you go to see them again now, you can't expect they'll make you feel quite like you did when you were a kid. They're older and trying live up to their legacy, but you're older too.


In practical terms, I'd like to see an ARAH Special Missions series to go along with the current book. I think that would add an element of gritty military storytelling that none of the current books have been really giving us, and that I expect won't be quite the direction of any of the three new books that will be coming out now.

[Troynos]

The new ARAH is closer to the last 1/4 of Marvel's ARAH. When it got overly cheesy, the writing and stories weren't as strong, etc..

That's not the familiarity that I want..

[Stormgard]

Fair enough. I would say that Cobra was the strongest book there has been in a very long time. But it definitley doesn't feel like G.I.Joe, as we know it.

[zedhatch]

Yes - Substance that was created from #1 to #155 and is being built upon now - I mean, isn't that why we liked it in the first place? The whole point is that all that backstory is still there!

Ok something I wanted to ask, and I am not trying to add flames to the fire, but why is it so many Joe fans now get so preachy about Hama if we don't fall at the man's feet. I was never a huge fan of the comic (there were stories I liked but overall it just wasn't for me) and the figures are what brought me into the fold. The figures and vehicles were what I loved, and while the filecards did sometimes give a guildine to the characters they also had enough vaugeness to add in your own elements. IE I have always charactarized Beachead as a workaholic, nothing in any media says that and yet I think it perfectly fits the character.

The point being I have always felt Joe was what I made it, not what Hama or sunbow or anyone else made it.


Some of the more vocal fans declared that Hama's work was the ONLY valid material to come from the DDP run. Now he seems to be public enemy number one to quite a few others - Did his support of ROC have that much of a profound effect, or was it his dismissal of the more anal of fans for their obsession with coninuity? Whatever, he seems to have fallen from grace quite spectacularly in some quarters.

I can see the point on the DDP declasified, but the Frontlines story was horrible, I remember people just dispizing that one,especially since it promised to settle some plot points that never got settled.

As for a "fall from grace" I am not sure, I know there are some of his other comics work he has done I am not impressed with (Generation X).

I'm not trying to knock Hama but I am saying the comic was never my 'central continuity" and his work outside Joe rarely left an impression.

[Stormgard]

Ok something I wanted to ask, and I am not trying to add flames to the fire, but why is it so many Joe fans now get so preachy about Hama if we don't fall at the man's feet. I was never a huge fan of the comic (there were stories I liked but overall it just wasn't for me) and the figures are what brought me into the fold.

...

The point being I have always felt Joe was what I made it, not what Hama or sunbow or anyone else made it.

...


I'm not trying to knock Hama but I am saying the comic was never my 'central continuity" and his work outside Joe rarely left an impression.

Well it's possible to really buy into (and continue to appreciate) what Hama started out doing, but still not be all that impressed with his newest stuff.


The comic presented a very rich, exciting, and detailed Joeverse for its readers (much moreso than the filecards did for a kid who played with the toy but never followed the comics). For anyone who followed the comic regularly, so much of what G.I.Joe was about had to do with the characters and personalities (perhaps moreso than the plots, even). And Hama was the mastermind behind all of that.

Think of him like George Lucas - if you were a SW fan because of the movie, you give Lucas his due for creating that universe. But if you somehow never really saw the movies, but you played a lot with the toys (let's say you were a little too young to get into the movies, but you inherited your older brother's SW toys when he grew out of them), well then perhaps the SW universe is more about your imagination than Lucases SW world. Maybe you used the Tie Pilot to drive the AT-AT, because that's what seemed cool to you.


I think there is a consensus that the original comic peaked at some point before it ended, and no matter how much many of us appreciated the best years of ARAH, doesn't make us blind to the years when it may not have lived up to its best potential. To pull out another SW comparison, look at how upset lots of SW fans have been with Lucas since Episide I came out.

[Crimson Rage]

Well, I liked Hama's later run, especially consdering the retrictions imposed upon him by Hasbro. GI JOE changed & evolved, (as it should and is why I liked ROC) and Hama made things like the Eco-Warriors and Star Brigade, foisted on him to sell toys, actually work in the format (but okay, I admit that the TRANSFORMERS G2 story sucked)

That period is there, it exists and Hama stands by it - He can't just ignore it and write stories set in the golden age of #11 - #70 (or whatver individuals think makes "good" Marvel GI JOE) to be popular. I think Hama's proven time and again that he's the sort who speaks his mind and doesn't try to ingratiate himself, and I respect him (and his comics) for that.

[Crimson Rage]

Ok something I wanted to ask, and I am not trying to add flames to the fire, but why is it so many Joe fans now get so preachy about Hama if we don't fall at the man's feet.

Er, I don't. People don't like it then fine - Hama's no 'god' to me, mainly because I grew up with UK "Action Force" comics (early ones, not the Marvel UK ones) which I actually preferred. Hell, I'd sooner read "Operation Stubborn", "Operation Snakebite" or "Desert Strike", all quality Action Force stories, over ANY Marvel comic, whether it's Hama or not. Thankfully I have every one of those comics so can do just that and read the ARAH continuation. "Win win" indeed!

I just boggle at the criticisms of his new series when, to me, it does indeed evoke the earlier work that, until now, many have been clamouring for. Nor do I 'get' the praise heaped on the leaden IDW reboot (which I read for several months before abandoning)

[Troynos]

That period is there, it exists and Hama stands by it - He can't just ignore it and write stories set in the golden age of #11 - #70 (or whatver individuals think makes "good" Marvel GI JOE) to be popular. I think Hama's proven time and again that he's the sort who speaks his mind and doesn't try to ingratiate himself, and I respect him (and his comics) for that.

It's not the elements of the story, it's the tone. He could still tell continuations after 155 but with the tone used in the first half of Marvel and that would be cool.

[zedhatch]

Er, I don't. People don't like it then fine - Hama's no 'god' to me, mainly because I grew up with UK "Action Force" comics (early ones, not the Marvel UK ones) which I actually preferred. Hell, I'd sooner read "Operation Stubborn", "Operation Snakebite" or "Desert Strike", all quality Action Force stories, over ANY Marvel comic, whether it's Hama or not. Thankfully I have every one of those comics so can do just that and read the ARAH continuation. "Win win" indeed!


Well it did kind of come accross that way when you said: "I mean, isn't that why we liked it in the first place?" but maybe I took that out of context, so sorry if I did.

On a side note I have read some of the AF comics and I have to admit I do like them a bit better.

I just boggle at the criticisms of his new series when, to me, it does indeed evoke the earlier work that, until now, many have been clamouring for. Nor do I 'get' the praise heaped on the leaden IDW reboot (which I read for several months before abandoning)

I can get that, at the same time I just don't feel the comic is as universal as many comic fans try to make it, I did finally end up reading the whole run, but not a whole lot of it stuck with me. Again it wasn't terrible but after all the praise I had heard I was a bit letdown.


The comic presented a very rich, exciting, and detailed Joeverse for its readers (much moreso than the filecards did for a kid who played with the toy but never followed the comics). For anyone who followed the comic regularly, so much of what G.I.Joe was about had to do with the characters and personalities (perhaps moreso than the plots, even). And Hama was the mastermind behind all of that.

Think of him like George Lucas - if you were a SW fan because of the movie, you give Lucas his due for creating that universe. But if you somehow never really saw the movies, but you played a lot with the toys (let's say you were a little too young to get into the movies, but you inherited your older brother's SW toys when he grew out of them), well then perhaps the SW universe is more about your imagination than Lucases SW world. Maybe you used the Tie Pilot to drive the AT-AT, because that's what seemed cool to you.

I see where you are going with that, but from my perspective that doesn't quite work. Many got more from the cartoon (which the orginal star wars didn't have going for it, unless you count that aweful christmas special LOL) and while I get that many people got a great deal from the comic, I just wasn't one of those people. The little I did get from filecards was personality quirks like deep Six's cold fish personality or Grand Slam loving comics (something I don't believe was ever brought up in the comic ironicly enough).

But in all of this, there were so many hands in GI Joe that I have often felt many people get shoved to the side because Joe fans want a "Lucas" to point at, but that simply isn't the case. designers, artists, toon makers, ect all contributed to the franchise as a whole. The main difference with SW is that (most times) the other contributors get tons of credit for what they did, but ultimatly the final product falls to Lucas himself as he is the owner.

[jlavaia]

the main problem with Hama's current run is that he seems to have forgotten alot of the stuff he had previously written. there's quite a few dangling plot threads and then there's the problem of his bringing back deceased characters with no explanation at all.

[GI Guppy the third]

Can't we all just have fun? I mean there isn't a single Joe comic that has ever given me goose bumps because its so well written. Each book is 10 minutes of entertainment each month that I look forward to. There's elements of each run I like and elements I don't like. I just got done reading the last issue of Jack of Fables and it was one of the worst written Fables comics ever but it was also one of the funnest. Point being, whatever to just being entertained by kitsch?

[SmokedPorter]

I'm giving up on the ARAH continuation. It's dull & what DDP did picking up from #155 was stellar.

I'm gonna concentrate on getting the DDP/Disavowed trades one by one instead of picking up ARAH.

[ZombieSnake]

I gave ARAH a try, but just wasn't into going back to that storyline. In the meantime I had already started picking up the IDW series, and have been really liking it. I've not gone the route of getting it each month, I prefer getting TPB's now. It's a lot easier to keep up with the story that way.

[Hat Trick]

I think i'm gonna drop ARAH also....it's kinda silly....the other IDW books are great!(The DDP books are what got me into reading G.I. JOE again)

[ljacone]

I read the first trade of ARAH over the weekend and really enjoyed it. I thought it was a great mix of action and character and it moved at a great pace. So I am going to stick with it for a while.

[turner]

The marvel run and the hama IDW continuation is what it's all about.

[Crimson Rage]

The marvel run and the hama IDW continuation is what it's all about.

Ah well, at least I now know that I'm not alone in my love of the Marvel continuation.

[Kitchen Viper]

Ah well, at least I now know that I'm not alone in my love of the Marvel continuation.

You're certainly not, I love ARAH...

[dorian247]

I'm giving up on the ARAH continuation. It's dull & what DDP did picking up from #155 was stellar.

I'm gonna concentrate on getting the DDP/Disavowed trades one by one instead of picking up ARAH.

Yeah the DDP stuff awesome IMO. I really enjoyed it all. I like the IDW stuff but just so many deaths when I wish they would develop characters more. Aside from that I'm a big fan.

ARAH has definitely got its moments but I love all things Joe.

[Turtle Master]

Are the IDW reboots gory at all? I am probably guilty of judging their covers but I'm not as interested in comics that require a parental warning on them or are excessively dark. The new ARAH stuff is a little corny at times but I have a fondness for it. I loved Special Missions and the realistic military terminology (at least to me) of the original series but have avoided the DDP and other IDW stuff thinking that they've gone too far away from that original innocence.

[zedhatch]

Niether, Just follow your own continutity LOL.

Seriously I have found niether fills what I want in Joe related media so I leave them both be.

[Stormgard]

Are the IDW reboots gory at all? I am probably guilty of judging their covers but I'm not as interested in comics that require a parental warning on them or are excessively dark. The new ARAH stuff is a little corny at times but I have a fondness for it. I loved Special Missions and the realistic military terminology (at least to me) of the original series but have avoided the DDP and other IDW stuff thinking that they've gone too far away from that original innocence.

I don't think the IDW reboots are gratuitously and unrealistically gory - there's that famous head shot of CC, but for the most part I think they are probably fairly tame.

They are definitely psychologically dark and at times disturbing - especially the Cobra series, which was also IMO easily the best one.

Incidently, I don't think the Special Missions series had an original innocence, they were gritty, realistic military stories. But they included a certain sense of humor about them that I think helped counteract the bangs and booms.

[maczero]

Are the IDW reboots gory at all?Not really. I'd say no more violent than what we saw as kids during Hama's run during the 80's. The real difference is tone. If you prefer a more lighthearted/campier take on Joe then you'll probably like Hama's continuation. The reboot books can be dark but there's still humor and fantasy mixed in so you don't feel like you're reading a generic military book.

[Turtle Master]

Thanks for the responses on blood/gore, etc. I enjoy military realism but didn't want to see familiar childhood characters taken too far into psychological depravity to the point where you can't like them anymore.

[Hat Trick]

I totally dig the IDW books.

[Stormgard]

Thanks for the responses on blood/gore, etc. I enjoy military realism but didn't want to see familiar childhood characters taken too far into psychological depravity to the point where you can't like them anymore.

Without spoiling the plots I'd say that some of the old stupid characters from your childhood, you actually find yourself liking more now.

Others may have been less exciting to a kid but are made more believable and interesting now. It's universe where no one is perfect, and there are tough choices to make for the main characters. I think the Cobra storyline was terrific, and so far I'm really enjoying the Cobra Civil War story arc too.