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Thread
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What secrets lurk in the filecards?
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07-14-2009, 12:08 PM
Loose Cannon
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Troynos
I think it depends on the motivation to go "rogue" and carry out these atrocities. If they're doing it because you get off on it, then yeah, would go Cobra, but if doing it because they feel it's the only way to get the job done, then they're still fighting the good fight but now firmly believe "the ends justify the means".
(Most likely what Tiger Force thought)
Sometimes, I think you do need to fight fire with fire.
I think our biggest problem with the "war on terror" is that we think in terms of battles and armies and rules of engagement. When you're dealing with people ready to commit suicide to blow up some others, that's a different kind of mindset that we're just not prepared to face.
( I think we don't anymore)
The war on terror is a psychological war. And it will only ever be won when the Islamic world starts policing themselves. Not meaning to single out just that group of terrorists (since there are lots of others in the world).
(Not so easy. Plus who does the policing? There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq under Saddam. No such authority in Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia,
)
Dropping an Army into the area ends up working against you. You have to be as quick and as mobile as the enemy. If they fight guerilla style, you have to fight guerilla style.
(Enter the Stryker Brigade)
Take the Israelis for example. That is one tiny little country, that if united against 'em, the Middle Eastern countries could easily take out (not getting into allies and all that, just one on one). But the other countries are afraid of 'em. If their allies weren't holding 'em back, I think the Israelis would have gone "Munich" on alot of those terrorist groups by now.
(Probably true, although many of the original heads of government in Israel were considered terrorists at one time)
The problem is.. well, it's like this.. I have a friend, she (for what ever reason) cannot see that she does wrong. For example, if she does something to someone and then that person does it back to her, she can't make the connection that her actions may have caused it or that even though the other person is still wrong, she can't really get that upset with them. But she doesn't see that she did wrong, it's okay for her to do whatever she wants, but it's not okay for people to do the same to her. Does that make sense?
That's the Islamic Terrorists, they think they're right in their actions, so no matter what, even reprisals, they don't make the connection that if they hadn't bombed first, then the Israeli's wouldn't have bombed second.
So where do you draw the line? I think Tiger Force stepped over it when they started actions against women, children and non-combatants. But the idea of a unit that has "carte blanche" isn't that bad an idea.
( I think this usually only leads to abuses, of which just one could ruin everything you may have accomplished)
I think after 911 we took the wrong track, we didn't react quick enough and hard enough. Instead of asking permission from the UN, should have just went in and wiped Al Quada off the face of the map and then gone to the UN and said "they started it."
I don't think anything should ever be done to non-combatants, that's going over the line. But an enemy combatant, the gloves are off. Especially those willing to target civilians.
I see what you're saying but unfortunately I don't think it is even that cut and dry. If it was that easy to wipe Al Qaeda off the map we would have done it. I think to say fight Fire with Fire doesn't do any good. As Americans we just don't do that. We can't let ourselves stoop to that level of terrorism. We can't terrorize the local population into listening to us as Al Qaeda does.
Guerilla warfare doesn't work for the US, just for the one reason that Guerilla tactics are defined as:
Guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat in which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics in the form of ambushes and raids to combat a larger and less mobile formal army.
The guerrilla army uses ambush and mobility in attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory.
Al Qaeda doesn't have targets or a large formal army. Vietnam was different because they did. I think the work the green Berets do with the local populations is fairly effective and is something a local tribesman can relate to and are receptive to.
As far as your friend, Al Qaeda know what they are doing and they will keep doing it until they are stopped. They are totally taking advantage of the situation. Where these power vacuums exist they thrive. And it will take more than any army to change that. Nation building and a general rise in education levels. Plus a basic cultural shift. Which they probably would resist for generations if it is even possible. I think Sunni Rebels, Shia Rebels, Pashtun, Turkomen, Baluchis don't care who started it, they just want to make sure they end it, and get the last word in.
I think it is even way more complicated. For instance,
1) it's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys, Even for the Locals
2) The terrorists essentially use the local population as Human Shields
3) There are long standing regional and local differences in these places that go beyond Shia vs Sunni, or Islam vs Judism vs Christianity. Tribal level differences trump all other national level difference.
4) Education levels and poverty are so low in places that people may take any assistance from anyone and therefore switch sides just to survive.
5) Just because we've been there for 5 years doesn't mean we'll be there 5 years from now, especially since nobody wants us there and we don't even want to be there. Therefore expectations are low. (At this point I believe for us to make any difference at all we will have to be there for a long long time, which will probably only result in Afghans or Iraqis hating us more.)
6) Many of these people only know fighting. Local laws and even Islamic laws are not like the American Justice system. With very few trained Judges or even lawyers, They have always policed themselves and judged themselves.
Now of course most of this is my opinions and what I seem to understand and know. So I don't mean to pick on you Troynos. We all have only a limited knowledge of the whole war on terror. So all our views can be completely different. I would love nothing more than if Snake-Eyes could kill Osama bin Laden tomorrow. He's a terrorist. But I can't marginalize why many Muslims support the what he is trying to accomplish. Bin Laden believes that the restoration of Sharia law will set things right in the Muslim world. Many Muslims Hate Americans and the West that's a fact that may never change.
Last edited by Loose Cannon; 07-14-2009 at
12:10 PM
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