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Thread
:
What secrets lurk in the filecards?
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03-29-2015, 04:29 PM
DSumner
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tanksmasher
I still haven't read that book but did Blue Light become the basis for Commanders In-extremis Force (CIF) companies within SF battalions, which do the same kind of job as Delta?
Correct. When Delta came online, Blue Light was shut down, but people over in the SF groups didn't want all that training they'd developed to go to waste, so they stood up the 3-week SOT course at the Mott Lake Compound, and that evolved into the 9-week Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance, Target Analysis, and Exploitation Techniques Course, (SFARTAETC). Anyone who's going to be assigned to a Special Forces CINCs In-Extremis Force (CIF) company has to complete the course. SF guys along with Rangers assigned to the old "Special Action Force" (SAF) teams would attend the old SOT course. There also used to be a "Shoot In" requirement, where anyone attending had to demonstrate a certain level of weapons proficiency, but that requirement has been dropped. They do recommend that guys attending complete one of the in house training courses before attending though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LowTech
I believe so, sort of. As I understand, Blue Light was a temporary stop gap until Delta was mission-capable. I seem to recall seeing a line about wanting doers instead of teachers. Anyway, I believe that the green beret community took some lessons from Blue Light which eventually resulted in a CIF company in each Group. Depending on where in the world an incident occurs, a CIF company could be closer to the scene and so be more responsive than Delta or 6. To add to confusion, Marine Expeditionary Units (SOF Capable) can create ad hoc Maritime Special Purpose Forces for in extremis situations. In short (and having drifted from the original question), there are all sorts of potentially competing ass-kickers looking to give various riff raff and ne'er-do-wells acute cases of lead poisoning. I guess it all comes down to whichever general or admiral gets the first call in to whoever makes the final decision.
The MEU(SOC) & MSPF concept went bye-bye when the active duty Force Recon companies were disestablished, and FR’s Direct Action Platoons were used as the basis for MARSOC. The Deep Recon Platoon guys went over and formed the "D" companies of the division Recon Battalions. But, the Marines found they still needed the capabilities FR brought to the table, and reformed the active duty FR companies as part of the Recon Battalions (before all of the recent budget cuts kicked in, the plan was to bring the FR companies back up to full strength, and break them back off into independent units again). Now MEU's have what's called a Maritime Raid Force (MRF) that performs the same missions as the old MSPF. One of them did a ship takedown mission a few years back, retaking a ship that had been captured by pirates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hardcorps
There was some interesting discussion on MarSoc and other elite forces that let the cooks, bakers, and candle stick makers try out for the teams. In my experience, the reason for that is that the jobs the elite forces guys do is so specialized that a good soldier who is say, a mechanic, that is tough might be a better candidate than a mediocre infantry soldier. And it is so hard to find the right guys for these units, they need to cast their nets wider than just infantry or combat arms. Even in the non-elite forces, people sometimes change jobs. Guys might want to stay in the service but not like their job, or the service needs lots of privates or Lts, not so many Sgts or Captains in an MOS/career field. Green Berets only take Sgts and above. They want mature guys with a track record in the service. If I remember right, to be a SEAL, you have to earn a rate first, ie qualify for an MOS. The Green Berets also have each team member with a specialized skill-weapons, medic, comm, or engineer and AFIK, you don't have to have that MOS to do it in the Green Berets, ie you don't have to be a medic to be a GB medic. To be honest, the entire Marine Corps is sort of structured this way as well. Every Marine has an MOS, but every Marine is also a Marine Rifleman as well, and this works well in today's fluid combat environment with no defined rear area or front lines. Honestly though, I just think GI Joe does it as someone said, to humanize and make the story interesting. Alpine,a mountain warfare expert, is also a finance clerk. And remember, this whole MOS and combat arms vs non-combat arms thing is not that old. Prior to WWI and certainly prior to WWII, you didn't have these different MOSs. If you were in an infantry battalion, you were infantry, even if they had you cooking or typing on a regular basis because that was a skill you had. As warfare became more complex, a larger support contingent with technical specialities became necessary.
On the SF side of the house, due to the requirements for more SF, the Army brought back direct SF enlistment ("SF Babies") a while back. You can enlist directly into Special Forces straight off the street. For a while they were taking guys straight out of high school, but too many of them were flunking out of training, so now they're not taking anyone under 21. As far as recruitment goes, from what I understand, most of the guys coming into SF come from either a Ranger Battalion, and airborne infantry unit, or one of the SF support units, but they recruit Army wide, and will train you in the job you're hoping to get. They've also added a recent requirement that everyone completing the Q Course will have to attend the Army's Military Freefall (MFF) course and pass it.
On the "support" side of the house, it's going to depend on what type of unit you go to. It used to be they had no say-so in which SIGINT guys got assigned to one of the SFG SOT-A/SOT-B teams, now they have a "pipeline". EOD guys used to get randomly assigned to support Ranger and SF missions (Delta has its own EOD people assigned to their Combat Support Squadron), they now have a dedicated EOD unit, the 28th Ordnance Co. (EOD) (ABN, assigned to work with the 75th and other units. But people can still be assigned straight out of AIT to other Army SOF support units, like one of SF support battalions or 528th Sustainment Brigade.
The same with AF Special Tactics (Combat Control, PJ, and SOWT), and TACP/JTAC personnel, you can enlist straight off the street. Although anyone going over to the 17th Special Tactics Squadron - they provide JTACs to the 75th Ranger Regiment, has to have spent some time assigned to a TACP and complete a selection process.
Like the Army AF support guys get randomly assigned to units all the time. They do have some dedicated training courses, namely for commo, security forces, and medical guys, but not all of them are required to take them.
MARSOC is only taking guys with some combat/deployment time under their belts, even in support positions. They screen their support guys, and have a training pipleline for them.
Over on the Navy side of the house, you can enlist directly into the Navy as a SEAL or SWCC. EOD guys assigned to support a "regular" SEAL team (or another SOF unit) have to complete additional training, and the ones going to DEVGRU's EOD Squadron have to pass a selection process. SIGINT/Cyrto and computer guys (TCS/TIO) performing direct support to deploying units have to complete an assessment and training course.
Other support guys (armorers, Mobile Communications Team, UAV operators, dog handlers, Sea Bees, etc.) get assigned randomly, depending on where they're needed.
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