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What secrets lurk in the filecards?
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10-18-2012, 02:59 PM
oliverbox
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardman
Are Delta effectively amped up SF? I do find it very confusing the fact that there are so many Tiers in the US military (less the Tiers themselves as the sheer number of units who exist at each level).
I know we've been through this before, but humour me please, I'm British ;)
Afaiu we have the following:
Tier 1:
Delta
DevGru (SEAL Team 6)
and now another Army unit, Rangers RRC.
[plus non-US forces such as the British SAS and SBS]
CIA/SAD too presumably?
Who is in Tier 2 vs 3?
I've read that MARSOC are Tier 2, SEALs are Tier 3, presumably SF (or perhaps only parts thereof) are Tier 2. I also read that Rangers are seen as Tier 2?
What did we previously decide the British Paras and Royal Marines were? At least we, over here, just have 2 units at each level - one army and one naval/marine, though the cross over of missions with those is bad enough when you get to the top.
It was interesting reading "Task Force Black" that the SBS weren't seen as being "Tier 1" by the SAS at the start of the Afghanistan/Iraq campaigns (I will have to check which as the start times are quite different) - from other sources it would appear that the SBS certainly ended up as a Tier 1 unit so whether that comment was purely inter-unit rivalry I don't know.
Is there a pecking order of other non-US SoF, e.g. where to the Australian and NZ SAS stand, or the Polish GROM, etc? (/me thinks of the units to be available in Medal of [sic ;)]Honor Warfighter)
This sounds like a degree of specialisation which is surely against the whole idea of these Tier 1 units; though perhaps things have changed?
The "Tier" system only refers to U.S. Military units. The CIA/SAD guys are roughly equal in skill and training to our Tier 1 units, but because the CIA is outside of the U.S. Department of Defense - and thus outside JSOC - it isn't factored into the Tier system. Neither would units from Britain, NZ or Australia or any other allied nation. Though certainly there are analogies that make sense and we can talk about those.
The "Tier" system is officially a 3 tier system, but it is often further defined in a way that makes it look like more of a 4 tiered system.
Tier 1 - The most elite guys we have... but remember, all Special Operators are specialists. The more specialized, the more narrow the focus. It's like this: Special Ops units are like precision instruments - a scapel or a katana. Regular Infantry is like a broad sword or a hammer. This is the US perspective. It stands to reason, therefore, that at the top tier, you would need more units with fewer soldiers who specialize in specific types of missions. Obviously all these guys are incredibly well trained and proficient soldiers, but the focus of each unit is a little different, albeit with some obvious overlap.
Army Delta/CAG
Navy DevGru/Team 6
Army ISA (Intelligence Support Activity)
USAF 24th Tactical Squadron
Army Ranger RRC
Tier 2
Army Special Forces
Navy SEALs
Tier 3
USMC MARSOC* (plans for them to move to Tier 2, but not yet).
Army Ranger Regiment*
USAF PJ's and Combat Controllers*
Army 16oth SOAR*
Army 4th PsyOps
Army 95th Civil Affairs
Army USASOC Support Command
Navy SWCC
USAF Special Ops aircraft (I don't know all the designations)
* these units in tier 3 are considered more elite than the others, so that's why they're often talked about as 4 tiers. The Marines are working toward becoming a Tier 2 equivalent, but they're still pretty new to Special Operation Command, and the Navy doesn't really want that. The Navy sees the SEALs as Tier 2 and MARSOC as something similar to the Ranger Regiment - Tier 3. The USMC has modeled MARSOC on Army SF, so they want to be used as Tier 2.
British SAS, SBS, and SRR are considered to be the equivalent of Tier 1.
Austrailian and NZ SAS units are more on par with Tier 2.
Paras and Royal Marines are on par with Army Ranger and MARSOC, so their upper Tier 3.
I hope that helps.
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And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer?
Last edited by oliverbox; 10-18-2012 at
03:05 PM
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