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What secrets lurk in the filecards?
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08-28-2011, 10:18 PM
oliverbox
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rambo
Oliver, what would be your Top-5 or Top-10 of Spec Ops units?
Hey Rambo,
Gosh, that's a tough question. I served as a Chaplain in U.S. Army Special Operations Command, but I am not Ranger or Special Forces qualified... I've worked with those guys, but I was NOT a shooter. Chaplains are prohibited from TOUCHING a gun while on duty/in uniform.
That being said, like many of the guys on this thread, I read a LOT of books on Special Operations... combined with what I've seen in real life, that's not nothing. So, I read a lot about the shooters, and I've known and worked with real shooters.
In my opinion, The British SAS & SBS are probably the very top of the heap for their respective specialties. As a Land Based, CT/DA unit, the British SAS pretty much wrote the book on Special Operations. Certainly they are capable of any type of operation, but if it's an amphibious/aquatic operation, the SBS is REALLY tough to beat... and I'm quite sure that, though a bit smaller and less famous, the SBS is more than capable of performing CT/DA/Recon Ops just as well as their counterparts in the SAS.
Dalton Fury, in his book "Kill Bin Laden", says that the SBS are every bit as good as SEAL Team 6, if not better.
...So for the top 2 spots on the list, I would place the SAS/SBS. Deciding between those 2 units would depend on the parameters of the mission.
As for strict Counter-Terrorist/SWAT/HRT/Urban Operations, the German GSG-9 has one of the best reputations in the world. Because they are technically a police unit, rather than a military unit, I'm unclear as to how good the GSG-9 would be in the woods, or the desert, or the jungle in comparison to other units like SAS/Delta, but for HRT/SWAT ops, I don't know that there is anyone any better than the German GSG-9. Very, very efficient... the FBI's HRT would do well to operate more like GSG-9.
So for Urban Operations - the GSG-9 would be really tough to beat. Again, it's all about mission parameters. Special Operations units are like precision tools - a surgeon's scalpel opposed to a KA-Bar knife - so it's really a question of what is the specific specialty of each unit.
... and that is one of my biggest problems with the hype of Navy SEALs. They talk a big game about "SEa, Air, Land". As if to say that they are trained to be experts in ANY environment on earth. This is simply ridiculous. Every Infantry soldier in the Army and Marine Corps is trained (in theory) to operate proficiently in any environment on earth. Take the 4th Infantry Division, for example, they're trained and expected to be able to deploy anywhere the U.S. needs them to go. Right now, that happens to be Iraq and Afghanistan... that could be North Korea at any time, or China, or Georgia/Chechnya, or ANYWHERE the U.S. needs them.
SEALs are most effective in Ocean/River/Amphibious Operations close to the shore. That's what they're good at, but for a number of reasons, they are not nearly as good on the land as other U.S. Special Operations units.
The Australians have some incredibly good Special Ops units... so does New Zealand and South Africa. Australia's SAS is not really quite the same as Britain's SAS; it's really closer to U.S. Army Special Forces. Australia's answer to the British SAS/U.S. Delta is their Tactical Assault Group (West), while their Tactical Assault Group (East) is somewhat more similar to the British SBS/U.S. SEAL Team 6.
The Tactical Assault Groups are the premier units in Australia, and though newer units, will likely be able to stand up quite well by comparison to the British SAS/SBS and U.S. Delta/SEAL Team 6.
One other unit I should mention is the U.S. Army Intelligence Support Activity, which is known by quite a few "code names" like Grey Fox, Centre Spike, The Secret Army of Northern Virginia, "The Activity", etc. These guys are amazing, but HIGHLY secretive. Very little is known about them, but perhaps that's the most telling thing about them. Here's a fact that really speaks to their quality... the Army's Delta Force was based on the British SAS, but the British SRR (Special Recon Regiment) was based on our ISA because it's so effective. These guys are basically the "Spooks" or Spies of Elite Special Operations Units. If you need covert Recon through electronic surveillance or HumInt, these guys are the best in the world.
Additionally, the U.S. Marine Corps has only recently stood up it's own Special Operations Units: MARSOC/MSOB. Based on their very effective Force Recon Units, the Marine Special Operators are Amphibious versions of the Army's Green Berets. They are excellent, tough, and I think the future is very bright for MARSOC.
As for U.S. Units, I think the 3 most effective units we have are Army Special Forces (Green Berets), whose work in Afghanistan has arguably been more effective than any other U.S. Unit in that war. The Ranger Regiment is, arguably, the finest light Infantry unit in the world. They are a combat force of nearly unparalleled quality... perhaps, only the British Para's are comparable.
As a Special Operations Support Unit, the 160th SOAR are perhaps the finest helicopter pilots and aviation support in the world. Those guys are amazing. And though they are not technically shooters in the same sense as the operators they carry, their work is indispensable and they are certainly elite.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Sorry it's not more of a regular "list", I just think it's a really complicated question. I'll be interested to read what you and everyone else thinks.
Edit: Writing this much about Special Operations in this thread brings back some good memories. I've got a smile on my face. Thanks, Rambo.
__________________
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And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer?
Last edited by oliverbox; 08-28-2011 at
10:21 PM
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