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Thread
:
What secrets lurk in the filecards?
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02-28-2010, 01:09 AM
oliverbox
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mazinger
Technically everyone's secondary MOS is infantry. You learn the basics in Basic Training. Every soldier (I'm speaking about the army here) should be able to get from point a to point b in a tactical manner and know which way to point the weapon. ;) They just don't get regularly trained in it as much as the actual infantry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zuludelta
Hmmm. I don't know if I'd agree with your statement, but I guess my disagreeing with you is based on a different view of infantry and what the requirements are to earn an occupational specialty. It's okay though, if we agreed with each other all the time, discussions would be pretty boring
. I'd say your statement is more applicable to the Marines: Marine Combat Training -- arms training for non-infantry school MOSes -- is generally regarded to be a step above (in terms of firearms/patrol familiarization) than the Army's pre-MOS Basic Training.
Take my opinion for what it's worth, though, as I've served in neither the US Army or the Marines and the extent of my military training is Basic Citizen's Military Training with a community defense infantry group in the Philippines' National Capital Region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mazinger
Let me change that to say, every soldier learns the basic of infantry. Not that every soldier earns the secondary MOS title of 11B or whatever the army calls it now.
Sorry, Zulu. I'm going to say that Mazinger had it right to begin with. Marines and Soldiers go back and forth about thier training requirements. And here's the truth: 99% of the Army has never been through Marine Corps training, and 99% of the Marine Corps has never been through Army Training, so both sides don't have adequate experience to know what their talking about... everyone else just reads about the training, or watches a documentary on the Military Channel, and tries to make comparisons between the two. It's all malarchy.
The Marines are very tough, but a LOT of their training in nearly every Combat job except Infantry is Army Training: Marine Armor? Ft. Knox. Marine Artillery? Ft. Sill. Marine Airborne? Ft. Benning. It's the same training. The Marines have great looking uniforms, and their physical fitness test is arguably a little tougher (though 2/3 of the exersizes are different, so that's a little hard to say). However, the average U.S. Marine is a 19 year old, Lance Corporal... they do 4 years and get out. Those young guys should be able to do a lot physically. Generally speaking, the Marines who love the Corps the most are Former Marines. It's also just under 200,000 active and reserve Marines.
The Army is not a bunch of slouches. The U.S. Army is probably the best Army in the world. The only ones in the free world that really give it a run for it's money are the British and the Australian Armies. It doesn't quite have the same physical standards or the Marines, but if you look at the scope of the Armies mission, it's also doing a lot more, and a lot more technical tasks. Besides that, if you took the Top 200,000 soldiers, and went man to man with the Marines, I'm sure the Army would hold up just fine. The 82nd, the 173rd, and the 101st are some of the most professional conventional troops in the world. And the Ranger Regiment is probably the best light Infantry Unit in the world, with the possible exception of the British Paras. The Rangers are Head and Shoulders above the Marine Corps Infantry.
Basic Training: Every Soldier and Marine is trained in the Basics of Infantry Tactics. And those are perishable skills. So the Marine Clerk who gets through basic... after two years as a clerk, he's no better of an Infantryman than the Army clerk who went to Army Basic.
Marine Corps Basic is longer than the Army's, but the Marines are not just learning "soldier skills"; they also have to learn alot about the Navy, and that takes some time.
Their Infantry School is much shorter than the Army's.
It pretty much evens out.
A lot of it boils down to leadership. Generally speaking, clerks/cooks who might have to fight would be led by an NCO or an Officer - given that we're talking in hypotheticals about an emergency situation.
I can't say a lot about Marine NCO's or Officers. I've worked with very few, and the NCO's I've known have been very professional, but I've never worked with them in the field. The Officers have likewise been very likeable and curteous, but I've never worked with them in the field.
However, the training for Combat Officers, in my opinion, is hands down better in the Army. Let's compare the Academies - West Point Grads make up about 25% of the Officer Corps in the Army. I would imagine it's a similar percentage in the Marine Corps from Annapolis.
For producing combat Officers - West Point is Hands Down the superior program for leadership. They train officers to lead soldiers in the field. That's their whole program. Annapolis is training their students to deal with equipment and "manage" people. Marine Officers from an academy background have a lot of "catch up" work to do.
ROTC - it's pretty much the same story. Army ROTC programs are designed to train officers to lead soldiers in combat. Navy ROTC is about wearing a uniform, talking about "the Fleet", and marching around... there is NO combat training.
So I have to be honest, all things being equal among Marine and Army POGs, if they're being led by an Officer from their repective Branch, I'll take the group of soldiers any day over the Marines.
Mazinger is right: Every soldier is a rifleman. That's what being a "soldier" means.
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oliverbox
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